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Yep, fear-mongering.
Though, I do love that you are the first to point out that Ormat isn't a scientific research facility. Are you a scientist specializing in volcano's perhaps?
For what ever reason when you make regulations I like people to follow them especially when it is so serious as tapping into the magma which is like tapping into a nuclear reactor. Ask yourself why would they need that type of heat? I think I know do you? I hope to see legislation that will put a halt to the Magma tap and all this risk taking
You seem to come to a lot of conclusions and assumptions without any evidence, I hope you at least have something to back all this nonsense?
Everything that I have researched and put together comes from scientific papers from Ormat themselves and other research facilities that they are associated with.
Did you have permits or permission when you interrupted a public meeting with your nonsense?
Did I need one?
For someone who likes to hold everyone else accountable for "words", "rules" and "permits", you do seem to ignore a lot of them yourself. I am sure there is a term that describes people who think the rules apply to everyone but themselves.
Will you come out from behind your username and judge yourself along with me. If you believe that I am doing anything wrong please go to the police and report it immediately.
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What is the sense of having all these regulations if PGV/Ormat is not going to follow them?
Nobody on island has to follow regulations if it's inconvenient for them. Local tradition.
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RJ. So what if they encountered magma? Again, what's your point? Do you think they should have paid a royalty for a couple pounds of frozen magma (aka lava rock) to the state? How much do they owe? $1?
They changed from injection well to production well based upon the resources (steam essentially) that they discovered in that well. They adjusted and adapted like any smart company would have.
You do realize that Ormat tends to employ geologists around the world that helps them determine best places to drill geothermal wells? You don't think Ormat has any business in energy research when their business is energy?
What is a smarter use of land on a baby volcano? Is you living on it or a geothermal energy plant that is designed to be able to be rapidly moved in the event of an eruption a better use?
All of what you say leilanidude may be fine as long as the people on this island get to discuss it first. Magma Enhanced Wells should be taken seriously both scientifically and spiritually.
We are talking about super critical hot water and intense heats and pressure. Do you think this Israeli-Nevada company gets to come over here and do whatever they want and they don't have to report to anybody. I checked with EPA and the Hawai'i State Health Department and neither had any knowledge of this incident. I had to send them Ormat's scientific papers that described the incident/accident and they are now investigating.
Are you saying that drilling into a magma chamber is no big deal? May I ask you what affiliation do you have with Ormat that you would give them so much benefit of the doubt in these matters?
Some call it fear mongering I call it an exercise in the precautionary principle.
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"more of a conservative crowd"
If by "conservative" you mean "far right racist" then I think I know who you choose to spend your evenings with. Otherwise, these friends of yours may be fibbing about being kicked off Punaweb.
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They are not, "tapping into the magma".
It is not a "magma enhanced well", whatever that means?
When they changed it into an injection well, the injection portion is well above the magma chamber. The point being that that magma chamber below, would heat the re-injected steam back up so that the production well could continue to see super-hot steam.
We are talking about super critical hot water and intense heats and pressure. Do you think this Israeli-Nevada company gets to come over here and do whatever they want and they don't have to report to anybody. I checked with EPA and the Hawai'i State Health Department and neither had any knowledge of this incident. I had to send them Ormat's scientific papers that described the incident/accident and they are now investigating.
Like you are some sort of geologist or scientist that should be taken seriously? In all honesty, it isn't something that needs to be taken seriously! They encountered magma while drilling, engaged scientists and geologists, and changed their plans accordingly!
Why would the EPA or Hawaii State Health Department know or care if nothing was released? Again, mountains out of thin air.
Why don't you complain to the EPA about the volcano which is releasing TONS of toxic gasses every day without a permit?
Leilanidude, howzit?. First, Pele needs no permit to do her thing here in lower Puna. Personally I see lava as somewhat "sacred", drilling into the chambers to harvest or take Pele's and her peoples resources just feels wrong. Maybe even some cooled lava flows should be left alone Too?.
With all the drilling being done in Puna the last 40 years, is it at all possible these dozens of wells of some 7-8,000 ft could lead to warmer ground temperature? With so many new deseases or fungus amongst us and our Ohia trees this past decade, makes me wonder. Of course I know lava is not going to make its way through the well very far, but maybe hotter gasses and or extra produced steam could? Also if Ormat is using Wells as injection wells, who knows how all that 4,000,000 gallons of water a day is being distributed 7,000 ft down?. They Could be dumping it and its toxic brine of chemicals onto or over a very large sensitive chamber of lava? This could cause environmental impacts not known or understood yet. Also Could any of these 3-500 year old lava tubes in the geothermal plant area of Puna have any type of rare or unknown plants, bugs, or other nature wonders that maybe one day could be affected by this constantly growing geothermal drilling activity?
As for Ormat or Puna's geothermal venture, it has been an experiment since day one at the nearby residents expense. Ormat has been sneaky, dishonest, dirty, cheap, and most importantly highly prone to accidents that can and have changed to many good peoples quality of life here in Puna's paradise. This drilling outfit has hurt this community in more ways than it has helped in my opinion. What have they given back to the communities they have taken from over the years? The reputation Ormat or geothermal has amongst most good local folks I know is not a good one.
The constant divide within the community caused from geothermal operations, the unknown health issues some have had to learn to live with, the nightmares or accidents, All the lies and repeated types of community disrespect shown.In return we get higher electrical rates, 4,000,000 gallons of wasted water a day, and multiple holes drilled into our baby volcano by experts. That doesnt feel like a good investment for my keiki's future HERE, jmo though.
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RJ and Gypsy on the same pgv thread? Let me grab my popcorn!
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http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/loc...nt-company
"
The owner of Puna Geothermal Venture has two weeks remaining to file an answer to a complaint alleging it defrauded the federal government of $13.8 million in stimulus funds to cover an expansion at the plant.
Ormat Industries, the parent company of Hawaii Island’s only geothermal power plant, “engaged in a scheme to obtain federal grant money under (the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009) for geothermal energy projects which did not qualify for payment, and have misused and abused the federal funds they have received in order to falsely support geothermal energy projects that the government never intended, or would allow,” according to an amended complaint filed in May 2014.
The civil suit, which was filed in Nevada District Court, alleges PGV’s original 30-megawatt capacity plant was advertised as generating 30 MW of electricity, but in actuality was producing “no more than 17 MW and that this inhibited production was causing Ormat’s revenues to decline by $1 million per month.”
In an effort to stanch those losses, the complaint reads, Ormat undertook an 8 MW expansion of the geothermal plant, which it then misrepresented as a standalone plant in order to qualify for the federal stimulus funds.
..."
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gypsy - please explain how the plant is wasting 4,000,000 gallons of water per day?
Where do you think that the water/steam is coming from in the first place?
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They are not, "tapping into the magma".
It is not a "magma enhanced well", whatever that means?
When they changed it into an injection well, the injection portion is well above the magma chamber. The point being that that magma chamber below, would heat the re-injected steam back up so that the production well could continue to see super-hot steam.
Like you are some sort of geologist or scientist that should be taken seriously?
In all honesty, it isn't something that needs to be taken seriously! They encountered magma while drilling, engaged scientists and geologists, and changed their plans accordingly!
Why would the EPA or Hawaii State Health Department know or care if nothing was released? Again, mountains out of thin air.
Why don't you complain to the EPA about the volcano which is releasing TONS of toxic gasses every day without a permit?
"They are not, "tapping into the magma".
Leilanidude, from what you know will you tell me if you think Injector well KS-13 is different than the other injector wells in that wellfield?
"It is not a "magma enhanced well", whatever that means?"
Leilanidude, are you familiar with magma-enhanced geothermal systems? Basically you are getting your energy from the magma instead of hot rocks and that can't happen everywhere especially not 1.5 miles down.
"When they changed it into an injection well,..."
Yes, the permit was originally for an injector well. Then at some point after they drilled into the magma chamber Ormat amended the permit turning KS-13 into a production well. This is what I am asking about.
Could you tell me since you seem to know so much about it what was PGV/Ormat's reasoning behind turning that particular well into a production well? Was it an experiment to see if they could handle that type of heat and the fluids generated? Was it in the description of the project when they amended the permit? Does their lease allow them to do such things?
"the injection portion is well above the magma chamber."
So you admit to the fact that it is above a magma chamber that has been crusted over which is not hot rocks. So what type of steam do you think was being produced from that type of situation when it was used as a production well?
"The point being that that magma chamber below, would heat the re-injected steam back up so that the production well could continue to see super-hot steam."
You do not need "super hot steam" to generate electricity and to turn turbines only if you are thinking about producing electricity for Oahu.
"Like you are some sort of geologist or scientist that should be taken seriously?"
I am an individual who understands basic science and knows how to read permits and understand regulations and reports.
(I understand the need for legislation and I understand your concerned about me saying anything about anything.)
You do your thing and I'll do mine. You make your calls and I make mine. See you in the funny pages. leilanidude, whenever I find something that I don't understand I ask questions and if I find something is not above board I check it out. Excuse me for living.
"In all honesty, it isn't something that needs to be taken seriously!"
Leilanidude, with that attitude I really hope you don't work for the state or the federal government or that you don't ever run for elected office.
I did encounter your kind of apathy on the state level but it is changing for they know they have to at least do their job but it is going to take time for I couldn't find anyone on the state or federal level that would admit to knowing about the magma chamber at the bottom of Injector well KS-13.
"They encountered magma while drilling, engaged scientists and geologists, and changed their plans accordingly!"
When you say they engaged scientist yes you are right but who and from where and is that in their permit to do so and what were the results and why were they not made public? And what industry and products and patents resulted from this discovery with Hawai'i being left behind?
Can you answer that question? Who benefited from this discovery...the People or Ormat and Ormat's subsidiary Orbotech, a silicon based company. Or perhaps Lawerence Livermore labs that also got a chunk of puna dacite and then the next year in 2006 Livermore got a patent for a machine that goes from geothermal steam to silicon wafer. Telsa, an electric car company, that is now building in Nevada, close to Ormat's plant, a lithium battery plant (a gigafactory) and Ormat will provide 100% of the energy for the lithium battery plant. Makes me think why wouldn't Ormat be harvesting the silica and lithium from the waste to utilize for the plant? Ten years later do you see how it works?
Discover something in Hawaii don't tell anyone and get a head start on the technology.
Ironically the word "Ormat" is inside InfORMATtion
"Why would the EPA or Hawaii State Health Department know or care if nothing was released?"
In order for Ormat to change the wells designation they must apply to amend their permit with DLNR and the Hawaii State Health Department.
"Again, mountains out of thin air."
leilanidude do you think writing "mountains out of thin air" takes away the seriousness of this subject? And what does making mountains out of thin air mean anyway? If you wanted to make your point it would be more meaningful to say your 'making the Van Allen Belt out of thin air.
"Why don't you complain to the EPA about the volcano which is releasing TONS of toxic gasses every day without a permit?"
Leilanidude, for you to say that shows that your desperation and ignorance is showing.
One is divine nature and the other is man-made folly.
May you all have a marvelous Monday and I mean it!
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