TMT groundbreaking - live

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I have read comments made by both TMT supporters & TMT protesters that have been less than civil.

But this Facebook post goes far beyond that. It's full blown ISIS, with calls for the death of TMT supporters in the most gruesome, detailed way possible. His attack on a high school girl, who only wished to express her own opinion by way of a petition is beyond offensive. The way I imagine a member of ISIS would treat a woman who dared to speak her mind.

I certainly haven't read everything people have posted about the TMT, probably none of us have, there's so much that's been written. But I can't imagine pro TMT advocates have said anything that comes close to this tirade.

And he's not just a protester or protector, he claims to be a leader in the Hawaiian soverenty movement and has accepted money for the group camped on Mauna Kea.

I have two questions:
1) would anyone on Punaweb who supports the Mauna Kea protesters consider this man a leader of the movement as he says he is?
2) has anyone here read something comparable by a TMT supporter? I don't mean unpleasant or uncivil, I mean truly comparable?

[leilanidude]

quote:

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Originally posted by dakine

Ah dont get your panties in a knot leilanidude. No I didn't read the FB post nor did I need to to know it was in a class all by itself. I just pointed out that the tone on PW has not been "moderate" and in fact it's been down right ugly, and by far more on the part of the pro TMT folks than otherwise.

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Maybe you should. It is enlightening.

[TomK]

Dakine,

"Btw Tom, I see in today's Trib that your facility is being considered for early decommissioning. Are you a part of those discussions? Is there a discourse, as this article implies, with all the stake holders in this matter? If so can you shed a little light on the Hawaiian's opinion of this proposition?

The Trib's article, Talks in works for early decommission of telescopes in part reads:

"There’s been some internal discussion of essentially putting a more definite timetable on what’s in the current decommission plan,” said Bob McLaren, associate director of UH’s Institute for Astronomy.

That will likely involving expediting the removal of the Caltech Submillimeter Observatory, already scheduled to be decommissioned between 2016 and 2018, and up to two more telescopes that are not expected to operate beyond 2033, he said.

Those include the United Kingdom Infrared Telescope, Very Long Baseline Array, and at least one of the other submillimeter telescopes, McLaren said.""

I can't shed any light on this as the first I heard of it was this morning from the Trib. Really nice learning something like this from a newspaper rather than from UH. As you might imagine, there are a lot of upset people at work right now. UH owns UKIRT and the JCMT and has the decommissioning money (sent to them by the STFC), so you can see who the easy targets are for UH.

Lots of stuff going on right now as you can imagine.

As to the threats against TMT supporters, it definitely is in a class of its own. You might not like some comments by TMT supporters here, and nor do I, but this is different. It comes from a prominent member of the protesters, one who has been organising money to support the protest, and is pretty much the equivalent of observatory and TMT staff, just on the other side of the argument. Calling for us to be killed and beaten to a pulp, and a direct threat to beat up an 18 year old high school student, and then lie about the post he made, is on a new level, and should not be ignored or just passed off as, "well, someone said some nasty things here as well". Nothing as disturbing and threatening as this guy's posts have ever appeared in this thread.

[HiloPuna]

dakine
Referring to the "pro TMT" folks you write:
"...in fact it's been do
You exxagerate to try to create a false equivalence. Back it up....cut and paste the "uglies", for all to judge.
There's NO comparison to what the man wrote. He's not a kid, he's a grown man, he owns his words no matter how much he tries to distance himself or equivocate. His sentiments belie his theatre and gives pause to all of us who wonder about the motivations of these seemingly jobless people who harangue us as we drive by to work and school.

Life's hard on the mountain, no second chances when you fall off it.

[MarkP]

Nothing that the pro-TMT crowd has said comes even close to what this fanatic has said. It's shocking that anyone would make excuses for him. By himself he's just one kook, but by failing to denounce him the anti-TMT crowd has covered themselves with shame and has burned a few bridges.

[PaulW]

dakine sez:
"I just pointed out that the tone on PW has not been "moderate" and in fact it's been down right ugly, and by far more on the part of the pro TMT folks than otherwise."

Actually dakine, the worst comments have been from you. Telling people to shut up and go back where they came from. Own it.

But at least you're nowhere near this "protector".

[Mtviewdude]

I hope those will plan to develop on Hawaii Island do pay attention to what is going on and learn from what is happening.

It doesn't matter where you select, how much you do outreach you do, plans on how to minimize your foot print, how much you give to the community, nor if you do everything by the book. You will get bogged down and held hostage for the latest cause and held accountable for things that happened decades ago.

On the other hand, as you can see from what is going on with the mayor, corruption is grumbled about, but accepted and life goes on. Look at all that grumbling about illegal subidivisios and not a single thing done.

So if you do plan on developing on Hawaii Island in the future, pay off the politicians (make political donations), pay off some local leaders (hire local cultural consultant) and build it as fast as you can, before the lawsuits and protestors start up.

It seems that doing the right thing is the worst you can do.

[TomK]

Aaron,

"Obscenity-laced Facebook post calls for killing telescope supporters http://www.ilind.net/2015/04/24/obscenit...upporters/"

I can tell you now that the threats have now been forwarded to IfA in Honolulu. What happens next is anyone's guess.

[TomK]

Dakine

"And still my point, that western civilization is driving us closer to returning to the stone age via its uncontrolled squandering of the Earth's natural resources to the point of putting excessive pressure on the climate, is valid. Really, if the louder posters here really want a cause to get all self important over the need to put a stop to the excess CO2, to focus on one element, that is being added to the environment by man sure could use their zeal. Or if they want to diversify, the need to control the waste that is going into the oceans worldwide, or the mass die off, and in many cases extinction event, we are witnessing sure could use advocates. There are so many aspects of the first world's behavior that appears to have the potential to destroy our way of life that all this silly stuff being posted here is infantile."

This is just an aside.

The science community knows we need to stop excessive CO2 emission and know the world is not sustainable right now. It is the science community who are saying that and have provided the evidence. But it is not the scientific community who rule the world. It's politicians.

Enough of that, as I said, it was an aside, I'm now dealing with instructing our staff how to handle death threats. I'm observing this weekend, non-violently, I'm not about to slit a star's throat, just trying to understand our universe, but have to train staff in stuff I never thought I would have to do.

Thanks so much.

[TomK]

""Obscenity-laced Facebook post calls for killing telescope supporters http://www.ilind.net/2015/04/24/obscenit...upporters/"

I can tell you now that the threats have now been forwarded to IfA in Honolulu. What happens next is anyone's guess."

Just been told UH admin are dealing with this and the "targeted person" has been told to involve the police.

I'm not sure that's how I would have dealt with this, but at least something is happening.