OHA Votes to Rescind Their Support for the TMT

[knieft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zDt9vaUMdA&feature=youtu.be

I repeat. Has anyone watched this?

Cheers,
Kirt

[beepbeep]

What was the specific agreement re decommissioning telescopes once there are new one(s) ?

Pam in CA
May is Lupus Awareness Month

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

I repeat. Has anyone watched this?

Some of the speakers did seem to use the Bluto method of public speaking from the movie Animal House:

Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: [to Boon] Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.

[pahoated]

All this hoopla started when there was the general press release that the observatories meant almost $100 million to the Hawaii island economy. This place is full of land sharks and that number got them all in a frenzy for a piece of the action.

The only problem is that $100M is mostly for salaries, upkeep, and a good share of it comes from the tourist traffic. Keck has 120 employees and the median salary is $80K. That is almost $10M for just wages for one observatory. UHH is getting several million but it is in observation time. They get $1 per year from each observatory and about 17% viewing time. That is being covered by the tax dollars from multiple countries paying for the operating costs of viewing time. Actually, there have been multiple layoffs going on and a few of the telescopes are down hard without repair funding. Really good article about the current status. Also, TMT is the last and UHH plans are to decommission telescopes:
http://www.civilbeat.com/2015/04/mauna-k...-easy-one/

http://khon2.com/2015/04/13/uh-says-tmt-...elescopes/
UH says TMT will be last site, plans to decommission telescopes

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

[MarkP]

I watched the first couple of minutes. Need I watch the rest?

[TomK]

Posted by me:

"As long as we do a headstand on Easter Sunday and bring a lei to the volcano, we'll be just fine. Prepared and fortified."

Response by dakine:

"PW Word of the Day
ridicule - noun
the subjection of someone or something to mockery and derision: I would have though you would not be one to step so low as to practice ridicule here."

Response from MarkP to dakine:

"If you're heading out the door having dolled yourself up to look ridiculous and your family tells you so, they are doing you a favor."

dakine, did you actually watch the start of the video? "poisonous clouds brought in by the jetstream", "1800 people die", either a telescope or Mt Everest blown up by Chile but he did a headstand and took a lei to Kilauea.

At some point, as Mark suggests, you need to point out the ridiculousness of an argument so you can concentrate on the real points. Watch just a little later, a TMT protestor called Eric Wahilani made an impassioned and very respectful argument. People like him, opihikao and many others make points worth discussing, but you have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Pam,

"What was the specific agreement re decommissioning telescopes once there are new one(s)?"

There is no specific agreement regarding that yet, other than the TMT will be the last observatory built on Mauna Kea and all of them, at least currently, need to be decommissioned and removed by 2033. That may change.

[VancouverIslander]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MarkP

I watched the first couple of minutes. Need I watch the rest?

---

Despite the irrationality of the first speaker, I think it's very worth while to watch the whole thing. It is never a bad decision to listen respectfully to the opinions of others.

Just call me Mike

[knieft]

HotPE,

"Boon: Forget it, he's rolling."

And maybe even...

Otter: Point of parliamentary procedure!
Hoover: Don't screw around, they're serious this time!
Otter: Take it easy, I'm pre-law.
Boon: I thought you were pre-med.
Otter: What's the difference?
[Addressing the room]
Otter: Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did.
[winks at Dean Wormer]
Otter: But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
[Leads the Deltas out of the hearing, all humming the Star-Spangled Banner]

Cheers,
Kirt

[Kapoho Joe]

dont bother comparing kanakas to blacks it wont work and makes you seem desperate to hitch your wagon to someone elses rising star issue.

blackmailing countries to pledge support for your seperatist movement in order to build a telescope is high comedy. Do you honestly envision any country risking their diplomatic relations with uncle sam just to placate a vocal minority on some tiny island?

so much hope and optimism and so little brains and honesty.

[opihikao]

FYI: New York Times Article

(*Snipped - More at link)

On Thursday the trustees of the Office of Hawaiian Affairs, a state agency charged with improving the well-being of Native Hawaiians, voted to rescind their 2009 vote of support for the telescope. Now they are officially noncommittal.

Mr. Ige, who has been far too withdrawn in this confrontation, needs to step up. If he thinks the telescope is an important asset that promises great benefits to Hawaii’s residents and economy, not to mention to science and humanity at large, he should say so. If he thinks more needs to be done to protect the environment and native interests, he should say what that is and make it happen. His mild news releases urging more dialogue are not enough.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/opinio....html?_r=2


Very well written article. OHA will have to decide how to proceed in the coming days/weeks. At least the NY Times called out Gov. Ige. The protestors will not back down, and given the national and international attention, they have more support than some think.

Another perspective, which is well written:

(*Snipped - More at link)

SCIENCE NEEDS A NEW RITUAL

And yes, astronomy has its evils, and as with Mauna Kea, they are often connected to mistreatment of native peoples.

http://tinyurl.com/l5fdrtw


Too bad the ridicule that continues lends for foggy lens of the issue(s) at hand. Too bad politics enables manipulation. Too bad there is no respect for each other, as humans, not just kanaka maoli and ka po'e haole. Especially here in PW these days. Very sad state of affairs.

JMO.

P.S. The few prickly people here that frequent Kalapana (one in particular), and call my younger cousin, Sam, "Uncle", should spend more time with him and our ohana. Perhaps the "aloha" will rub off, and lend for better understanding of our kanaka maoli position. More important, how to communicate with "aloha". KAPU ALOHA.

ALOHA AINA.

ALOHA KEKAHI I KEKAHI.