OHA Votes to Rescind Their Support for the TMT

[knieft]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zDt9vaUMdA&feature=youtu.be

I'm surprised it hasn't been taken off youtube yet. I'm guessing many people in the movement are proud of the testimony as opposed to being embarrassed...?

1st speaker. Wowser. He represents the people of the world, remember. And gets a rousing applause...? So very damaging to the cause, but he is _admired_ by those in attendance?

2nd speaker. Couldn't find much relevance to the TMT, but good to know he says "to hell with the keiki of the future that are all contaminated with the technology" and "we are REAL people, that are spiritually connected, PERIOD, no discussion from any PhD in this room." More applause.

3rd speaker. I think Richard Ha was saying that TMT money going to the keiki was a good thing--quite meandering. Sounded like one person clapped.

4th speaker. A slam poetry entry I guess. "We are an arterial/ethereal(?) people, on a different level, we free" Very rousing applause and cheering. Again, so damaging to the cause.

5th speaker. Refreshing recognition of pro-TMT attendees and plea about who was here first and who has love, and of course, Truth. We come in love. Very likable, has family. Applause.

6th speaker. Argues environmental damage in a conservation district. "TMT is a monstrosity...of the almighty god of science." Wants money from other telescopes. There is a lot of poverty in India. Chile is build a large telescope so enough is enough. Applause and some cheering.

Then OHA folks do their committee thing, then some singing and chanting in Hawaiian.

The greatest irony to me is that the native Hawaiians have put up with the OHA. Protest cutting edge science TMT instead of protesting the OHA? Oh how I wish they had chosen a better battle. They have to spend time arguing they are not anti-science (when the content of much of what is said makes it clear they are) and then the overblown self-importance of some being the only Real and Enlightened folks on the planet shows through all the stronger. Granted, there is a demographic that is likely attracted to such ideation, but overall, it limits acceptance from a much larger demographic, methinks.

Imagine that the protestors targeted the OHA and never set up a blockade of the TMT construction. How many thousands more people (myself included) would be sympathetic to the cause. How unnecessary it would be to go on about the watershed pollution/sacred/mana/etc. type arguments. The "enough is enough" would be front and center without the circus logic and focus on TMT and Mauna Kea's sacredness. As it it is now almost a sideshow...

Cheers,
Kirt

[PaulW]

"the absolute hateful bigotry that has gone practically uncommented on here in PW"

The dialog is very dignified here compared to facebook.
Most of the bigotry is from anti-telescope people and much of it is from you.

[opihikao]

knieft stated:

The greatest irony to me is that the native Hawaiians have put up with the OHA. Protest cutting edge science TMT instead of protesting the OHA? Oh how I wish they had chosen a better battle. They have to spend time arguing they are not anti-science (when the content of much of what is said makes it clear they are) and then the overblown self-importance of some being the only Real and Enlightened folks on the planet shows through all the stronger. Granted, there is a demographic that is likely attracted to such ideation, but overall, it limits acceptance from a much larger demographic, methinks.
_____________________________________________________

Respectfully disagree. There are many of us who are disgusted with OHA, and have been for years. The OHA needs to be put into receivership (if even possible), restructured, or better yet, dissolved. OHA has lost focus, and does not represent our people well in several areas. Politics has overridden the importance of being in trust of our holdings. OHA has failed miserably for years, and this is only one issue that faces OHA.

I am also surprised they voted to be "neutral", recinding the original position of support. They value their jobs more at this point, than doing what is right. Kudos to Trustee Ahuna (Acting Chairman of the TMT special meeting). At least he stood on what he felt was right, thus, the "kanalua" vote (twice).

In closing, I am embarrassed by some of the testifiers, no question. Most of us submitted written testimony, instead of looking for the perverbial "five minutes of fame". I'm more embarrassed how OHA has fallen victim to the "political arena", instead of focusing on their fiduciary responsibilities.

JMO.

[knieft]

dakine:

"the one take away for me was the condition proposed by one speaker that the TMT might be all well and good providing the partners take a stand in support of the Hawaiian movement...I think that would be a good beginning point."

While I have no doubt this will make some people feel warm and fuzzy, it appears to me as a non-sequitur. Governments of countries around the world who want to pay for and use a _telescope_ need to "make public statements in support of a resolution to the unresolved questions surrounding sovereignty and ceded land rights etc."?

Never mind that it is a vocal minority that considers sovereignty as unresolved in any practical sense, what do these things (TMT and sovereignty) have to do with one another? Keep on saying that the TMT protest is about more than a telescope, but it's not logically about a telescope at all.

I don't know how the protestors save face at this point, but extorting support for sovereignty from the rest of the world does not make any sense to me. Should every institution that rents time from the TMT be required to sign a statement in support of Hawaiian sovereignty?

How about the protestors apologize for picking an inappropriate fight and say they will stop, think, and talk, for as long as it takes attempting to re-focus in the future to see if they can get any realistic traction on a "Hawaiian movement"?

Since I have Animal House on my mind lately...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V_hCqO6UQs

though it's not clear to me which side of the TMT debate would represent which side of the guitar debate.

Cheers,
Kirt

[rainyjim]

I watched the testimony and was amazed by a couple things...

- as Opihikao touched on, the inability of those who gave testimony to understand how embarrassing and unhelpful they were.

- the lack of understanding of the OHA members to understand what motion / amendments were currently being discussed, at one point they had to call a recess just to be clear what was currently being discussed.

I feel sorry for these people that they are wasting time on something like this instead of going to work and trying to provide a future for their children through their own 'sweat and labor' rather than trying to extort some sort of bribe from the next telescope.

[knieft]

opihikao:

"There are many of us who are disgusted with OHA, and have been for years. The OHA needs to be put into receivership (if even possible), restructured, or better yet, dissolved."

Yes, yes, there it is! Why not picket _them_? Not for their TMT wimpiness, but historically?

Respectfully _agree_!

Cheers,
Kirt

[Kapoho Joe]

When your own people (OHA) are screwing you how can you expect better from the ones you claim are oppressing you?

[MarkP]

To be fair, OHA's job is impossible. Imagine trying to maintain some kind of professional credibility and at the same time trying to appease those speakers? Within their own circle they pat each other on the back but to the rest of the world they are loons.

It seems like I don't need to watch the rest of the video. Respect goes both ways. Demanding absolute acceptance of such extreme views is not respectful. If their child was sick the majority of these speakers would demand the best medical care that the world has to offer, all of it based on modern technology and a way of looking at the world that they have just vehemently denounced. The general message of the protesters is inconsistent and disingenuous. Regardless of the message they are trying to convey, that is what the rest of the world is seeing.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Since I have Animal House on my mind lately

Bluto certainly was an archetype.

I'd like to add that the speakers who gave anti TMT testimony to OHA (in the style of Bluto), are in general less a reflection of sovereignty movement members, and more an example of public meetings anywhere.

We're a democracy so when public meetings are called everyone has the opportunity to express their opinion. Take school board meetings in Texas as a parallel example. Many speakers express themselves in a similar manner to the OHA meeting, they are emotional and enthusiastic in their beliefs. Some might say overly enthusiastic. They often don't believe in evolution, and as a result the school board buys textbooks which teach students creationism.

It's probably for the best that public meetings include both the wheat and the chaff, but then it's up to the board members to determine if their job is to follow the wishes of the majority, or to find the best course of action from the wheat that has been offered to them.

Here's one example. If it's always majority rule, we might never have had civil rights legislation for minorities.

[ironyak]

The objections to the much of the testimony seem to be that it does not meet some expectation of proper discourse, and yet is strangely still applauded and supported.

Does this fact make anyone reconsider their expectations or perhaps consider that they may be missing the message? Thoughts Kirt (when you're back)?