We Support TMT - Please sign the petition

[opihikao]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wao nahele kane

"Some people don't have the gumption to state what is in their na'au openly, without worry of being chastised."

I'm glad you posted that Opihikao because I was struggling with what you shared with us in your previous post about what the mountain was used for.

What I'm struggling with is how to share my thoughts on what you posted without ripping older Hawaiian culture a new Puka for being so damned psychologically abusive to its children, in effect crippling them for life both emotionally and intellectually. Yes that system was created and its lore formed to subjugate a people. I certainly hope such crippling story telling isn't shared with the youngsters today and folks wait until a more appropriate age or emotional development has been reached before unleashing such lore upon them.

Sorry but that's what was stirred within me about all that.

---

Aloha, Kane. Mahalo for that honest post. I am also guilty of trying to weigh both sides, and not being willing to be obtuse (although, I do have my moments...[]). Balance is key, Sir. My keiki and mo'opuna are not privy to the stories we heard, as I did not "see" some of the "experiences", but never doubted kupuna. Ever. That is one reason my ohana knows not to go anywhere near the site, nor any equipment (sorry, O/T).

With respect, for the term "crippling" to be used is a bit extreme, Sir. My life has been enhanced by those "psychological" teachings, and having experienced some of these "cultural events" personally, it is my hope there is balance.

Mr. Tom, Sir, soooo....do I really have to cancel the Robert's 57 seater bus (lol)? Mahalo plenty for the offer, and just so you know, I've been talking to my Mom about accepting your kind invitation. We are still in discussion, and she (bless her heart) is of the "old times", reminding me that our kuleana is Puna, as we are of Pele. Reminded me Poliahu is Pele's adversary. Gotta love her. Mahalo again, Sir.

Oh, I added bacon (choke...lol), tomatoes, avocado, lettuce to my mayo sandwich. [:I]

JMO.

[TomK]

Many years ago I had the pleasure of supporting a group of twelve on the mountain. This wasn't a tour but a visiting instrument team. It was chaos. As well as the team there was the telescope operator and myself, so 14 people all wandering all over the place including outside the dome.

One evening a big storm hit and the road started icing up immediately. We had about ten minutes to evacuate before the road became dangerous, but could I find everyone? Even when I did round up most of them, one of them would always say "I forgot something!" and head off back into the dome. Jeez, we came close to being stranded that night.

Then there was the observing run, again a some years ago, that used the most complicated set up of our most complicated instrument. Seven Japanese astronomers and only one could speak English, and only barely. The weird thing was, although they didn't understand me, they understood our telescope operator. He was from India and had the thickest accent ever, I rarely understood a word he said. But as long as I passed my instructions through him, then I could communicate with the Japanese group!

I'm not sure about handling a group of 50 to 60.[]

PS. Why ruin a good bacon sandwich with all that other rubbish?

[Wao nahele kane]

PunaMauka2,
So true and I'm sure you've noticed as have many how it's cropping up everywhere, even through news organizations etc. Perhaps it's related to the Puritan ideology now manifest in its newest form - PC?

Opihikao,
Crippling is more word appropriate for the old days practices but it sounds as if you're already aware of such rendered effects. Hopefully that understanding is shared widely amongst all Ohanas. I don't know because I've not been to any sort of "Talking Stick" (Native American thing) like council circles amongst Hawaiians. But I'm sure there's equivalents.

Tom,
Off topic... can you whistle up there at the observatory? I can't seem to get any sound aside from a futile pathetic blowing through my puckered lips up there. It's sort of a freaky feeling. That thin air keeps me from wanting to make any sort of extended visit beyond 15 minutes.

[Tink]

Thank you so much Opihikao for your words and links to answer my questions, it means a lot to me. The more I learn, the more respect I give and the calmer my soul gets. You mentioned a mayonnaise sandwich, which made me hungry, so I shall make me a fried Spam sandwich on Loves white bread to eat while I read the "other reading" links. This will probably make me more connected to the words I read, as I shared this meal with my Tutu Kane as a child (he made it) while he "talked story" with me.

Community begins with Aloha

[opihikao]

Big kine hug, Tink. Love it (SPAM on Love's white w/ mayo, Best Foods only...lol)

Mr. Tom, the tomatoes and lettuce "fell out" [:0], the six (6) pieces of bacon had priority. Mahalo for sharing that story. I have decided if I am able to venture to the "higher ground", it will be alone the first time. Mahalo again for the offer.

Apologies to all, for O/T, however, it's crucial to our "communication", as it were.

JMO.

[TomK]

"Off topic... can you whistle up there at the observatory? I can't seem to get any sound aside from a futile pathetic blowing through my puckered lips up there. It's sort of a freaky feeling. That thin air keeps me from wanting to make any sort of extended visit beyond 15 minutes."

You know, for some reason I've never tried! Will give it a go next time I'm up there, sounds like an interesting experiment. Along with the lack of air, dry chapped lips might hamper whistling. I promise to report back after a carefully controlled experiment. []

[Wao nahele kane]

Thanks Tom, much appreciated.

[rainyjim]

quote:

---

Originally posted by opihikao
E kala mai, rainyjim, with respect, the "majority" of Hawaiians could not have supported nor been against the TMT. The "elected officials", and the self purported representatives of the Hawaiian Kingdom/Nation (whatever it is) are not representative of the "majority".

---

I'm afraid we've drifted into semantics...

The point I was making is that it passed all of the permitting and decision making processes.

I think indeed that the majority could have either supported or been against in theory, however, I do recognize as you appear to indicate that their input is not necessarily recognized by any representative group.

That said, the fact that it passed and with input from the recognized political representation of Native Hawaiians it is much more indicative that it was supported by the majority rather than it not being supported by the majority.

Again...semantics...they are not the most productive area of discussion for this particular discussion.

[kalakoa]

Related items from today's fishwrap:

"No business will bother investing after this debacle"

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/comm...ews-may-12

At least the legislature is consistent:

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news...-shortfall

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

That includes Moon RIDERS, a partnership with NASA and Kealakehe High and ‘Iolani schools to develop technology that removes moon dust from space equipment.
Another is a demonstration project to use basalt as a building material for launch pads on the moon or Mars.

Pisces is another project that benefits Hawaii high school students interested in science and math.

In addition Pisces is conducting research to use basalt for a building material. If successful every construction project on the Big Island could benefit and save money by using abundant, locally sourced basalt as a building material for foundations, walls, patios...