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birchl--- One of the reasons these communities have been an easy target for these people to prey upon and deceive, is that most people that move out here want to be left alone. So, naturally they would be target victims because the perpetrators would know these people are less likely to say or do anything about their situation. Several other factors weigh in such as lack of higher education. This effects peoples ability to know how to complain to AG's office, Consumer protector, IRS Federal SBA, etc…. Also, poverty plays a role because these people feel they are already down on the totem pole of society and feel like they do not count. And then there is the plain lazy factor. Sorry, but true. People like their comforts and luxury; and have become complacent in accepting their rights being eroded away, because as long as it doesn't effect them it doesn't matter attitude. This is born from the me,me,me syndrome of a self serving society versus a tribal village mentality. Where everything is about me instead of we. Just an observation. We must hang onto to customs that hold us together, like waving at everyone you drive past in your subdivision. i have noticed that many people have stopped doing that, how sad. I think our subdivision will be getting a sign that nicely reminds everyone to wave. It helps solidify the feeling of community. The little things add up and in this selfish capitalist society we have to hang onto these things or loose out on what really matters.
justthefacts---yes, LOL… i did save the VFD in 2001. wasn't easy and yes the fire truck is still at our Volunteer Fire chief's house, but the Eden Roc truck is at our community lot because the truck was getting vandalized in eden Roc, tools stolen and things. we are in desperate need of volunteers by the way, especially for eden Roc since it only has one volunteer. if you want to join please call me 968-1111
website for the VFD
http://fernforestvfd5charlie.webs.com
What these I "own you" people don't understand is that the members voted them in and have the power to amend By-laws and vote them out. plain and simple, even the president of the united States can be impeached. And theft is a good reason to vote out our president of the FFCA and the Hui. They are both proven thieves with the Police as a witness. can not better credibility than that, well maybe a judge. but you know they will have a hard time wiggling out of that one,LOL…………….And before class cation law suit i have a couple of other tricks up me sleeve I am working on first [  ]
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even the president of the united States can be impeached
This is more likely than the subdivisions working together.
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quote:
Originally posted by Thunderfoot
VancouverIslander : Eden Roc may not have mandatory road fees but many past Board members there have tried to tell people they are.
And many people in my subdivision want the access road opened between the subdivisions, but evidently we are a bunch of thieves is the reason we are given for it. More rumors that are causing us to be divided. I think if Eden Roc people that are saying that would drive around our neighborhood, there are some pretty nice homes. So to lump us all in the thief category is sad because that is a statement of the absolute and improbable that every human that lives in this subdivision is a thief. And I am sure every subdivision has its' share of thieves, just Iike anywhere. I wonder if Eden Roc knew that we are their volunteer fire department, maybe they would feel different. We had to take your fire truck because your neighborhood vandalizes the truck. We are not making the assumption that all people of Eden Roc are vandals. We want to be able to get to you quickly to help fight fires, and we now have to go all the way out and in to your area which will cost valuable time for us to respond and, well, it isn't rocket science. I personally do not care if the access is open, just giving the facts.
So, the rumors even have subdivisions divided with each other. We need to get together and help each other
I asked at one of the monthly meetings about the blocked road. The concern wasn't so much about possible vandalism, but about wear and tear on the paved roads. I can sort of understand that one as there's barely enough money to keep the two main paved roads functioning with one lane for much of the subdivision. Ideally, one day the county would take over the roads in both subdivisions and people could travel freely on county roads, but we know that will never happen. I like to walk through the blocked off road and wander around in FF. It doesn't seem any more vandal like than anywhere in ER. I sure do miss the walks down Jungle King. So much character around there.
Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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no i hear the same thing about Hawaiian acres. any attempt to hook up the roads is met with 'it will increase burglary - drug use- vandalism- god knows what.'
thunderfoot - that just doesn't seem to cover this phenomena. i agree about the 'me, me, me' society, but that is prevalent across america. europe tends to live in smaller communities and have retained more spirit of responsibility, but even there money out ranks integrity. some of these troubles seem peculiar to our mountain.
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any attempt to hook up the roads is met with 'it will increase burglary - drug use- vandalism- god knows what.'
Not just road connectivity -- just about any development or progress of any kind. Dig through these forums and there are conclusions like these:
Farmers' market? Open-air drug festival.
Community center? People will just smoke crack in front of it, shoot heroin out back.
Paved road? Thieves will just use it to steal stuff faster.
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it would be funny (it actually IS funny) if it wasn't tragic. its the bit about this being hawaii that gets to me. where did all this suspicion come from. i realize that there is truth to thunder foots statement that a lot of people in these subdivisions have retreated from the world and are suspicious of it. more and more though, these are simply large housing estates, with affordable properties. more and more people move here, not to hide, but to be able to work, and provide a home for their families.
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kalakoa is spot on . i wholeheartedly agree
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Yes I hear you all, and we will just have to work harder to dispel those rumors.
For my subdivision those rumors got started as one of the various excuses to close the lot. It boggles the mind why they want the lot closed other than some sotra sick power trip. And yes, it would be comical if isn't wasn't so tragic. Unfortunately, it is reality so I am looking for the medicine to help. I know there are many factors involved in why these communities are dysfunctional, and the answer also lies in the fact that they were started up incorrectly, and then just followed as people as moved in. Just continue business as usual because that is the way it has always been done. And just because something has always been done a certain way doesn't mean it is the right way or the best way. And I do agree that there must be something in the water,LOL
Even if we never understand how it got this bad, I do have ideas for fixing it, and that is what I am going to concentrate on right now
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this whole mountain needs to get together. but meanwhile, i hear you. we at HACA (despite the obvious nay-sayers) are also desperately trying to come up with ways of improving the association and its facilities. there are always going to be the nay-sayers, but theres a new wave of dedicated people that have yet to become jaded and discouraged. so we have high hopes. we are fortunate in that we do have a center (i wonder how many people actually realize what a gift that is?), we do have a whole bunch of people trying to help overcome the nay-sayers and subversives. and its working. the membership is slowly rising., more people are using the center. more people are volunteering. just keep going and don't let the mud-slingers get to you.
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Thanks for the support. yes we are looking at what didn't work, and are going to rewrite our By-laws to reflect that; so we can try and prevent this mess in the future. But we have to be careful to stay within the Law. Some suggestions were made to only allow residents of 3 years or more to run for office. It sounded like a good idea because people should get to know the ambience of their community before being in charge of it. But after further research I discovered it would violate the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. So, we have to be very diligent in how we approach fixing our issues. Definitely one thing we are throwing out is the "in good standing" clause throughout the By-Laws. Turns out that is electoral fraud and is considered voter rigging to attach the payment of money with the ability to vote. This is Highly illegal. Plus, it creates economic discrimination on top of that. This is where Robert's Rules are a problem because if you can create members in your organization where some members have more rights than others, you are immediately creating an entire second class membership that will be unhappy from the very start. So, that is why Robert's Rules can be a problem, and as you can see, the County that follows Robert's Rules, has its share of issues too. Unfortunately some people think running a community organization is political. I do not know how that got started but most community organizations are non-profits around the country, which forbids them from becoming active in any political campaign, therefore making it clear that most non-profits can not engage in political campaign activity in order to help keep things honest. There are some civic non-profits that are formed for political purpose but they are not 501c3s, and they are not considered charitable non-profits. Somewhere it got confused and coupled with the fact that many of the Board members on these organizations in Puna just have good intentions with no business or non-profit knowledge. This contributes to the problem. For example, separating your road organization from your community organization is not the general structure of a community organization. Usually the road people would be a committee under the community organization with a Chairperson of that committee reporting to the Board. This keeps things cohesive and has a measure of accountability for the road crew. This will help stop them from getting swollen heads and forgetting who pays the bills. When people think they can be drunk with power with no one to account to, you get people who end up abusing others to satisfy their personal needs instead of doing what is best for the community. We should all look at it as if how you would want to see your community long after we are dead and gone. To make decisions that will benefit future generations to come for the entire community, not just ourselves and what we want. The Board is supposed to represent the community as majority rules scenario, not what each individual wants to see and then force that on everyone else. Like changing the names of our streets without asking us, for example.
Anyway, we all need to stick together to help each other. And I am glad to see that other communities want to work together now as a team to help fix this. the County is definitely contributing to the confusion here. For example, they paved Captain's Drive under public access laws, but yet told us to maintain it because it is a private road. You can not have it both ways. it is either public or private. It can not be both at the same time. And the fact we pay road fees means it is private because I can not be taxed for the same thing twice. the road fee is essentially a tax and I already road tax with my vehicle registration every year.
So, with the County acting like that, why wouldn't these community organizations feel like they can act like that too ?
We have to start somewhere. If we do not fix this, it will only get worse
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