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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
I think all this talk about doing it better or whatever they're saying is pure crap. Politicians have pulled that line forever. It isn't going to happen. Everyone takes advantage, EVERYONE is full of greed and the people that run the telescopes are not any different. Period. They all say what they think we want to hear and then take all they want. It has never been any different. Ige is just another slick talking snake in the grass.
Enough is enough—A’ole TMT!
It is pure crap because there is not one voice or agenda. How is he supposed to address any points when the there is nothing to settle. If by some miracle TMT gets canceled, is it over, the matter settled forever.
Or will another project get protested because the protestors will feel enboldened, treating the state like a genie and just rub it and ask for things.
How about the native hawaiian people (50.1% and over) form a counsel that speaks as 1 voice to negotiate and be bound by the decisions.
On another note, do the protestors actual volunteer their time to actually do the volunteer work to rehabilitate the mountain. Or do they sit around talk story, eat and grumble about how scared it is.
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If by some miracle TMT gets canceled, is it over, the matter settled forever.
HELCO/PGV plan to build a second geothermal plant; there will be more protest, and we'll probably see the PunaNIMBYs aligned with Native Hawaiians for that one.
(As the massive "private ag" subdivisions were created -- by design -- on "worthless land", these are probably not so much "desecration" in the opinion of the Hawaiians, so the above alignment would work just fine.)
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This whole episode has cost the Native Hawaiian community a lot of support. People I know who used to subscribe to the "host culture" concept are now dismayed and coming around to the opinion that Hawaiians do not deserve a veto over projects like the TMT or anything else. The protestors lost a seven year detailed and open process only to resort to extortion and manipulation.
The implications for sovereignty are huge because it is now linked in many people's minds to the TMT mess. My own opinion on sovereignty has gone from being cautiously supportive to very skeptical due to the lack of believable leadership and/or a coherent plan. If the sane and intelligent elements of the Hawaiian leadership continue to allow themselves to be defined by the radicals, there is no hope for a nation in any viable form. As Opihikao says, JMO.
Edited for typo.
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The protestors lost a seven year detailed and open process only to resort to extortion and manipulation.
This.
If they succeed, I'll have to seriously reconsider my retirement plans, which will include taking my income with me wherever I end up going -- I can only imagine how much worse this County will get as the tax base erodes.
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quote:
Originally posted by dakine
I think all this talk about doing it better or whatever they're saying is pure crap. Politicians have pulled that line forever. It isn't going to happen. Everyone takes advantage, EVERYONE is full of greed and the people that run the telescopes are not any different. Period. They all say what they think we want to hear and then take all they want. It has never been any different. Ige is just another slick talking snake in the grass.
What a sore loser. Go home and cry to mommy why dont ya?!
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
If they succeed, I'll have to seriously reconsider my retirement plans, which will include taking my income with me wherever I end up going -- I can only imagine how much worse this County will get as the tax base erodes.
You and a lot of other people - but that seems to be the desired outcome by the activists. Walter Ritte - with his Molokai Ranch vendetta - has almost single-handedly put more Molokai residents on the dole - and on a one-way trip off the island - than all the other island activists combined. "If we can collapse the island's economy, then no more (haole) people coming to muck up our paradise...."
If Hawaii's political faction doesn't figure out how to deal with the obstructionists in a way that allows for a sustainable economy, I don't see a very favorable outcome for anyone but the activists - and those wealthy enough to want only an occasional playground. And the latter may, eventually, become sufficiently dissillusioned with the "gouge the off-island property owners" to abandon Hawaii for more friendly playgrounds.
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quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Aaron: Plans are great! Implementing them is a different story, and key to success. Promises made must be kept.
Please excuse any mistakes I state hence forth. The University of Hawaii implemented a master plan for Mauna Kea around 2000. Judge Hara invalidated the conservation district use permit for the Keck Outrigger telescopes in 2007 because UH needed to implement comprehensive master plan for Mauna Kea. The existing master plan was deemed inadequate (UH was working on a comprehensive master plan starting in mid 2005, which was a year and half before Judge Hara's 2007 decision).
Fast forward to 2010. The University of Hawaii successfully pushed through a comprehensive master plan for Mauna Kea.
Its only been FIVE YEARS since the CMP was enacted. Please cut them some slack, as they're trying to do the right thing.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chunkster
This whole episode has cost the Native Hawaiian community a lot of support. People I know who used to subscribe to the "host culture" concept are now dismayed and coming around to the opinion that Hawaiians do not deserve a veto over projects like the TMT or anything else. The protestors lost a seven year detailed and open process only to resort to extortion and manipulation.
The implications for sovereignty are huge because it is now linked in many people's minds to the TMT mess. My own opinion on sovereignty has gone from being cautiously supportive to very skeptical due to the lack of believable leadership and/or a coherent plan. If the sane and intelligent elements of the Hawaiian leadership continue to allow themselves to be defined by the radicals, there is no hope for a nation in any viable form. As Opihikao says, JMO.
Edited for typo.
EXACTLY!
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My own opinion on sovereignty has gone from being cautiously supportive to very skeptical due to the lack of believable leadership and/or a coherent plan.
Well said Chunkster, it's the same direction my opinion on this matter has meandered over the past month or two.
I try to keep in mind however, that some of the most vocal protestors are not really representative of the Hawaiian people, they're mostly just louder. Unfortunately any group is bound to have one or more bad apples spoiling the whole bunch if you look quickly. But OHA's flip flop, and mostly nothing from DHHL or Kam Schools leaves me wondering what the end game can possibly be. Right now the protestors greatest achievement seems to be blocking a $1.4 billion project with a tent city. But in the long run, what does that accomplish other than some media attention? Does it address education, cultural development, and a real direction forward?
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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host culture. The Hawaiian people/community. 2015 A.D., the present. state of Hawaii.
i can't help but wonder where this distinct and cohesive entity on the tip of so many a tongue fits in among the Hawaiian-Filipino-Korean community.
or the Japanese-Filipino-German-Portuguese culture.
or the Hawaiian-Chinese-English people.
what about the Puerto Rican-Hawaiian-Scottish-Guamanian community.
can't forget the Chinese-Norwegian-Dutch-Japanese-Hispanic culture.
nor the Filipino-Vietnamese-English-Hawaiian-Cherokee-Irish people.
