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it is either public or private. It can not be both at the same time.
It's called "a privately-owned road which is open to the public", and since it is "open to the public" the County right to enforce all traffic laws thereon.
The situation persists because (as far as I know) this issue hasn't been brought before a judge. I further believe that a Federal lawsuit would be required, on constitutional grounds, because the case would really have to be escalated out of the local courts in order to get the hearing it deserves. A traffic ticket against a landowner is probably the best way to ensure "standing".
I can not be taxed for the same thing twice. the road fee is essentially a tax and I already road tax with my vehicle registration every year.
This is already covered by County's elaborate public/private fiction. Registration fees and fuel taxes are for maintenance of "public" roads, and the subdivision roads are "private" therefore not eligible for these funds. As an extra added bonus, "private" subdivision roads do not meet the "minimum standard" required for a "public" road, and therefore cannot be adopted as "public" roads. (Example: the Hawaiian Acres roads lot is 40' wide, but public roads require a 60' minimum easement...)
with the County acting like that, why wouldn't these community organizations feel like they can act like that too ?
I think it's spelled "leading by example", but the pronunciation might be considered offensive to some participants of this forum. Think "a powerful ingredient which aids growth".
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maybe we should organize a 'community association day. we could share information and problem, and suggestions. we are also reviewing our by-laws, but although i understand legalese for the most part, can cross check against roberts, our charter, and the non profit; i had not thought about the constitution  if you like i can send you the notes and results of each change as we go through them. we are looking at each one in terms of english, simplicity, and INTENT. our by-laws - through nobodies fault - have become a mismatch of amendments, half of which are badly written and some of which don't even make sense. i find the project amusing in its entirety - grammatical, spelling, unnecessary 'padding', and amendments that have no sense exist from the very first one, what we call our-selves and where we should meet!
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kalakoa, I agree this would need to be heard in Federal arena because it involves the Constitution, since everything is based on that document; and the only court for that arena is Federal.
Think,"a powerful ingredient which aids growth".
That is exactly what I am thinking and am trying to find the right medicine. And I agree that pronunciation is important. I do try my best to articulate things that way, but sometimes writing in a forum on a computer, your words can easily be misunderstood. Let us not dwell on pronunciation and concentrate on the meat of the matter. If we get distracted by diction, then we loose focus on what really matters.
birchl, I Love that idea and was actually thinking about forming an organization that includes all the subdivisions of Puna into one voice to approach the County, but also have it as monitoring station for members of these subdivisions to seek remedy for conflicts between their Board and members. We could help resolve disputes and perhaps contribute to preventing lawsuits from being filed. What do you think we should call this organization and what powers do you think it should have to help resolve subdivision disputes ? Also what penalties could we enforce for non-compliance ?
I like the name Puna Association of Community Organizations, and we could be called PACO.
Also, I was thinking of penalties for Boards not compelling with our findings by having the ability to remove any or all Board members if a hearing we conduct finds wrongdoing. And we will define wrong doing along the lines the IRS would consider an officer to be ineligible for Office of a non-profit. So, things like: theft, extortion, embezzlement, bribery, tax evasion etc…. would make someone ineligible to be an officer on any Board of any community organization in Puna. And have any community organizations that wants to be a part of this will add a special section in their By-laws about our organization and what parameters there are with us. And that should be approved by the members and the Board of each organization through an independent poll or vote to show us what their community really wants. And we will set parameters for what is acceptable procedure for that.
So, please tell me your thoughts so we can make this happen [  ]
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As the very large Puna subdivisions grow (population wise) they will have a larger and larger impact on politics *if* they can get some kind of cohesive front together. Look at the census data for any of them from 2000 to 2010.
Just call me Mike
Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike
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i don't see much hope of a united subdivision organization, many of them are in their own conflict .
Contrary to the Rosie pictured painted by birch , hawaiian acres is one of them . membership is down , and the money is not coming in . residents are not involved or interested in using or participating in the community association. since the new board took over several board members have resigned and the remaining board has alienated much of the community with statements that they are a private club and would like to remove some of the paying members.
orchiland is also in conflict as well as HPP.
the nicest community center, and really seems to be there for All residents is Leilani .
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thunder foot, i meant more like sharing information and resources. i think everybody mostly knows the difference between 'right' and 'wrong' so defining it doesn't seem to help much.
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Well, the organization could do whatever the people want, could have many types of services. And yes it could be political, or share information, but was also thinking it could be a regulatory Board for community organizations to avoid Court with disputes between members and Boards. We could also host an annual event/get together, to help share information. It could approach the County about changing the width requirement for County roads for example, or whatever other needs our communities have, like good health care. Bay Clinic is a joke, sorry but true. I would rather go to the veterinarian,LOL …………………... That is why I was asking what kind of organization should it be, and what kinds of things would you like to see it do ? And who would want to particiapte. There are so many ideas. And I am not discouraged by people who think it will never work, because sometimes miracles do happen. It starts with hope and grows from there.
And yes, sometimes people need to be forced to do the right thing unfortunately. In the case of my subdivision, they know they are wrong, but keep doing it, so yeah in order to prevent this in the future we need some sort of checks and balances. Like writing into the By-laws that Board members should never receive a salary for their position on the Board helps to prevents corruption. That is why it is required for non-profits as a rule that must be written into the By-laws. Further, many of these Boards forget who elects them in. They get elected, then become drunk with power and think they can not be removed. That is part of the problem. Recently I got a letter from the AG's office that membership corporations powers lie in the members, and they have the right to elect the Board, remove the Board, call special meetings and amend the By-Laws. So, these Boards must remember that, and also have people that stay over after election to teach the new Board how to operate it properly. For example, did you know that all non-profits' Officers must sign an Annual Conflict of Interest Form ? It is these things that are critical to pass down to help have a smooth operation of the organization, and help prevent fighting between members and the Board. The Board is supposed to represent the members, not dictate to the members. So, yes, people can know right from wrong and still opt for wrong; happens all the time
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thunder some very interesting points. the conflict of interest form especially. paying family members and friends to do work for the association is a problem and there are times when board members seek payment for work. and the drunk with power issue is something that is a problem with one of our board members now . yes the people have the power to remove unprofessional board members ,when they become drunk with power , out of control and no longer are functioning as a representative of the paid membership but instead as a the monarch queen of everything.
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Yes cronyism and nepotism are rampant here too. The AG office's want to pawn off the problem, and so does the Consumer Protector. Might be time to contact the Ombudsman. Why aren't these organizations regulated like everybody else.
Unfortunately what we are seeing is people acting like there are no repercussions for their actions because they know our only recourse is Court and feel confident we won't go there. Well, if that is what takes. I will spend my last breath to fix this injustice; if it the last thing I do. I can not stand to see this corruption hurting so many people, especially the kids. They are going to be accountable in Court. It is sad that people can not just behave on their own and do what is best for their community instead of their self-serving agendas.
In my subdivision we have Board members involved in theft, with the Police as witnesses, and yet they carry on with some sword of twisted righteousness. But theft is one good reason to remove them. Theft is a big no no on any Corp. Board. So, we are call a meeting to remove them, for that and countless other things. Even sent them a letter from AG's office that states the members are the power of the membership corporation and have the power to call special meetings, see the financial records,and remove the Board. And yet these people carry on like they are gods with no shame, scruples, morals, and continue on with their appearance of upstanding citizens. Boggles the mind. Most people when caught red-handed run in shame. Not this mob. No they are "in charge". They chain up the gate but can not cut the grass ? What is going on in their psychopathic minds ? Never mind. I do not want to know.
For us, we will have to go to Court because they will refuse to recognize their removal. They will also ignore a copy of a letter from the AG's Office, that states the members have those powers to remove them. They think not looking will save them. It will only make it worse in Court. Funny part is every time they chain the front gate, someone undoes it,LOL……………People have had enough of being locked out of our lot for four years. Other communities at least have a community lot with activities I am guessing. We have had a closed lot for four years. So where is all that money going ? Rhetorical question….
So, we will go through the process of their illegal By-Laws,that they do not follow, because that is what the Judge will require. Then when they do not recognize their lawful removal, we will go to court because we will have exhausted our legal remedies. That is the plan for us. Then we will dissolve everything and start over with a brand new organization, that the community will vote on. The road will be a committee under the new organization with a chairperson that will report to the Board, that way there is accountability. And that is the normal structure of a community organization. We will write into the By-laws that Board members are volunteers, not paid positions,that way there is temptation for corruption removed for that anyway.
We see how these people act when they think they do not have to behave. And it is ugly. Out here, there is this one person who talks ugly about the poor and mentally unstable people. This person actually stole a port potty from the very "type" people she despises and says,"do not count". If you are for the community, aren't you supposed to help them, not put them down? They need the help most of all.
So, she steals from people who are down and out, and all they have left is that port potty. That is low, and worse than theft. That is looting. This person has money too. She is the one running around telling everyone to call her if they see thefts occurring and wanted to start a neighborhood watch. Are you kidding me ? It sounds like a bad comedy of keystone clowns gone crazy, because it is. It is insane if you think about. Point being it is a shame people can not just be good to their fellow humans without making them, but alas there will always be those who need to be held at arms length. And they certainly do not need to be on the Board of a community organization !
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If the corrupt are getting into office by devious or illegal means, legal action should be taken. If they are getting into office because property owners keep electing them.........good luck.
One venue I know that may effective in bringing people from various POA's together is the monthly Puna-wide Neighborhood watch meeting sponsored by the police. Call the non-emergency number for information. The meeting focuses on crime, but there is certainly opportunity for talk story.
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