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Define lava nazi.
I don't see how the situations are comparable.
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And wow, never considered the word hostage myself either. I think you're right opihikao. In a sense they're pretty much terrorists holding the mountain hostage until their demands are met. The lack of correlation between their movement and their actions suggest they could essentially hold anything hostage in exchange for the TMT to have their demands met. Clever of them to focus on a spiritual issue / mountain (read: religious / pile of rock) instead of a government building or people.
This is a very complicated social issue and i'm sure the various components will be hashed out by social scientists for sometime to come!
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knieft, valid questions you ask:
"Tell me honestly, opihikao, is there anyone, anyone at all, up there that has considered simply backing down and walking away to regroup? Or is the group think so heavy in the we-will-save-something that no one can can even talk about an end game to the Mauna Kea TMT phase of the effort?
Does anyone talk about OHA beyond being disgruntled with them. Why don't you hold OHA hostage? Seriously."
1) They all are regrouping (both DLNR/Protectors), but not leaving the mountain (although some of us tell our ohana to seek compromise, it falls on deaf ears.)
TMT will probably be built, but good changes with DLNR/UH/etc. are happening in this process. The lawsuit factor will weigh heavily with the State, as it should. The protestors/protectors won't back down, as for some, it is their "piko" on the mountain, and some have fought telescopes being placed up there for years! Nothing new, just another BIGGER platform for the above mentioned movement.
2) OHA (as stated before, and I stand by that one, too) needs to be dissolved, or put into receivership, as does DHHL. There is one person who has the money, and the "standing" (some don't agree) in the Royal Hawaiian lineage, and that is Abigail Kawananakoa, "Princess", as it were, who can make that change. She is also on the Board of Regents for the UH, and has taken them to task over this TMT issue, but moreso, the overall disappointing management of Mauna Kea/Mauna a Wakea. She has also donated thousands to the protestors/protectors. Some of us have written to her about OHA and DHHL over the years. Her address is:
2182 Apio Lane
Honolulu, Hawaii 96817
I addressed my correspondence with proper protocol, (you know, the "Princess", "Royal Highness" thing, or they get insulted) and asked for her intervention with OHA and DHHL, as her "swan song". When you have copius free time, perhaps a letter to her would be assisting the effort regardind OHA and DHHL. If nothing else, you will get a pretty letter, on "Royal" letterhead from a Hawaiian Princess before she joins Kupuna. Just a suggestion.
Mahalo for asking, and appreciate your sincere questions. There is middle ground, somewhere, finding it is the key.
Oh, and huwenfut, the National Guard is mostly "locals" from Hawai'i. Everyone is ohana over here in some way, shape or form. It's no easier for NG to do this job, than it is for HCPD or DLNR/Sheriffs. As one lead protestor/protector stated, "Well, I've never seen the National Guard arrest people for chanting, praying, and singing." He met with Ige, and was very open, and welcoming for Ige to bring in the National Guard (that way they all get to see ohana they haven't seen for years!). Make no mistake, there are "protectors" amongst the police, DLNR officers, Sheriffs, and the National Guard. This must be settled without the perverbial "strongarm" tactics.
"Kapu aloha" is the new term protectors utilize while expressing one's self, combined with that USofA, God given right of free speech. Good mix. It is a wonderful country, isn't it? [  ]
Imua kakou, Imua e na poki'i!
JMO.
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quote:
Originally posted by knieft
opihikao:
Does anyone talk about OHA beyond being disgruntled with them. Why don't you hold OHA hostage? Seriously.
Now there's an idea! Instead of having a temper tantrum over a telescope, do something that might actually garner widespread support and accomplish something positive and materially beneficial to Hawaiians.
Meanwhile, if the whole TMT protest is somehow key to sovereignty, Hawaiians need to decide just what version of it they want to pursue. It's putting the cart before the horse to say it's really about building a nation when nobody can tell us what that might actually be. Besides, a lot of good will has been lost and ill will generated by the actions of the protesters. If this is a strategy, it is one almost guaranteed to get nowhere.
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knieft, forgot to address this earlier, and before watching that Disney movie, "Frozen" (again) [xx(] with small mo'opuna, need to respond to your comment:
" dakine tells me I am delusional and to shut up or something will blow up in my face. Is that the end game? Can it really be that self-defeating?"
I cannot speak for dakine, however, respect his/her commitment, belief, and position in what is before us today. The "end game" seems to be dictated by the USofA more than any other influence here in Hawai'i.
"Self defeat" seems to cross all cultures, nations, and religions. We, as a human race, seem to defeat ourselves with both hands tied behind our back as history shows. The key is compromise, balance, and common ground.
Sometimes, it is better to "Let it Go"...[ ] (Ahem, no, I'm not thinking about/relating to Poliahu with this movie...lol)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk
Enjoy your evening, mahalo again for the civil discussion. Aloha ahiahi.
ETA: The video below is the best one (to date) that relates, in essence, the pain of our people, the commitment to our aina, and the hope that we will one day have a voice that matters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7EQ2--BA0A
Mahalo in advance to all, for the indulgence. This is very personal to so many of this land.
JMO.
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I have nothing against the TMT, but I'm more partial to the people up there asserting their right as people of the land. That video was impressive to me, thanks Opihikao. Where is this leading to? It's a warning to any ventures in the future, better get consensus from the people who's views matter the most.
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Aloha, newgirl. Hard question you ask, however, I'll give it my best:
Since the inception of Statehood, business in Hawai'i has been tailored to provide for few, not the many. It still exists, to some extent. Those of us born prior to Statehood, recall a better day, when the wise, old souls (Kupuna) led the way.
"Where this is leading to" will be decided by the truth. Both sides have valid arguments, however, there is "palapala" (documents/paper) that is in question. Until that is resolved, there needs to be negotiation for balance. Mahalo for understanding that our people have not been heard, the select few tend to speak for thousands without authority, nor permission, evidenced by many petitions, testimonies, and the like, for years. That is why, I believe, this is the "HULI" (turn) of several generations in pain, looking for a better tomorrow for our issues.
No "Royalty" (Kingdom), no "slaves", in the vernacular. There were only two (2) classes of people in the Kingdom at one time; we should not be expecting to be waited on, nor waiting on others, in my mind. Balance is key.
As we speak, police are headed back up to Mauna Kea/Mauna a Wakea to deal with the same woman from Pahoa (see links above) who was arrested. (Sigh/SMH) Good God. Please, Akua, bring her back to Puna and take her car keys. Amen. [xx(]
JMO.
ETA: Clarity, in English. Kala mai. (please excuse)
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opihikao says:
"The "end game" seems to be dictated by the USofA more than any other influence here in Hawai'i."
fill in the blank: ______________________.
"...the pain of our people... and the hope that we will one day have a voice that matters"
maybe give the orchestral string section a rest already with the fictitious self-victimizing appeal to pity and the "our people" spiel. what does your English and Chinese DNA have to say about all this?
Newgirl says:
"It's a warning to any ventures in the future, better get consensus from the people who's views matter the most."
"people whose views matter most", yeah.
"...asserting their right as people of the land."
what qualifies a person to be a "people of the land" anyway, results deemed sufficient from a genealogical DNA test kit? who isn't a "people of the land"? ARRR, maybe a salty pirate ...or a hot air balloonist.
anyway, just say no to telescopes to help return the kingdom to the people whose views matter most in our society.
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"As we speak, police are headed back up to Mauna Kea/Mauna a Wakea to deal with the same woman from Pahoa (see links above) who was arrested."
What was that definition of insanity again?
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quote:
Originally posted by TomK
"As we speak, police are headed back up to Mauna Kea/Mauna a Wakea to deal with the same woman from Pahoa (see links above) who was arrested."
What was that definition of insanity again?
OMG, Mr. Tom, this poor woman. She tried to cajole her way into the protestors/protectors ohana tonight, and when kindly rejected, she went off into space! [:0] Won't go into detail, but this one is indeed close to insane. Pua ting. They're all trying to help her, and she is just not having it. SMH.
Got to pray for her, and hope they can show her how nice South 1 is (Hilo Hospital/psyche ward). [xx(]
JMO.
ETA: Oh, PM2, your slip is showing (wink).
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Weird thing is when I saw her mugshot I could have sworn I've met her. For the life of me I can't remember where or when, but that face is very familiar. As most of my astronomy colleagues will tell you, I never forget a face, but I sure do forget names! Now if people could just have numbers for their names, that latter problem would be solved! [  ]
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