Community efforts to eradicate Albizia?

[gogould]

Smiles.. Yah that too.

[BradW]

Left standing dead trees are called "widow makers" and "hazard trees" for a very good and long standing reason. I've taken out more than I could count; many of the old ones I just pull over with a 100' steel cable and my truck. They hit the deck plenty hard enough to ruin your day.

[shockwave rider]

quote:

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Originally posted by BradW

Left standing dead trees are called "widow makers" and "hazard trees" for a very good and long standing reason. I've taken out more than I could count; many of the old ones I just pull over with a 100' steel cable and my truck. They hit the deck plenty hard enough to ruin your day.

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I agree with you about "widow makers" when you are talking about most large trees, but albizia is a very light wooded tree to begin with, much less dense than a doug fir or hardwood typically found on the mainland. They dry out fast, and while I wouldn't want to be standing under one when it comes down, they do very little damage when a dead standing tree does go down. We saw the process first hand up and down our street, the treated trees caused no damage, but no one could get in or out for days due to downed live trees, and we had no power for over 2 weeks due to albizia damage to the lines.

There are probably thousands of acres of uninhabited land here in Puna covered by these trees, some are huge and would cost thousands of dollars each to cut down. Many of our neighbors have successfully treated trees on adjoining vacant lots, one neighbor didn't because the off island owner refused permission, and he had his house buried in 7 or 8 big downed trees during Iselle. They had to crawl out of their house in the middle of the storm to go to a shelter. I know which scenario I am more comfortable with, I'll take the risk of a dead standing albizia coming down over the damage that can be done by a live one in a tropical storm any day.

edited for typo

[BradW]

Point taken.

But fact is, dead trees, albizia or any other, are safer on the ground. I got permission to girdle and leave standing a huge one from a local neighbor in HB one time just to see how it reacted. Once dead and decayed it came down in large chunks every time the wind blew. I collected the wood and burned it in my BBQ pit so I know it was cured and dry. But anyone being hit by those pieces would surely have been killed. I took the tree down.

Chain saws are relatively inexpensive to buy, and even cheaper to rent. And each property and each tree has to be evaluated carefully and on it's own. You won't be shocked to learn that home base for me is the Pacific NW, nor that I've owned and managed wood lots for 40 plus years. Standing dead trees can't be trusted to do the honorable thing and remain standing. I call it gravity.

Regards.

[shockwave rider]

quote:

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Originally posted by BradW

Point taken.

But fact is, dead trees, albizia or any other, are safer on the ground. I got permission to girdle and leave standing a huge one from a local neighbor in HB one time just to see how it reacted. Once dead and decayed it came down in large chunks every time the wind blew. I collected the wood and burned it in my BBQ pit so I know it was cured and dry. But anyone being hit by those pieces would surely have been killed. I took the tree down.

Chain saws are relatively inexpensive to buy, and even cheaper to rent. And each property and each tree has to be evaluated carefully and on it's own. You won't be shocked to learn that home base for me is the Pacific NW, nor that I've owned and managed wood lots for 40 plus years. Standing dead trees can't be trusted to do the honorable thing and remain standing. I call it gravity.

Regards.

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Chainsaws that can cut a 3 foot or larger diameter albizia are not cheap, and are dangerous in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing (most homeowners).

My partner is a certified arborist who practiced in the PNW for many years, he spent a lot of time assessing hazardous trees that were made hazardous by amateur lumberjacks, he also knew of more than one person who managed to drop a tree on themselves, or their ground crew. Do I think big albizias near homes or roads should be poisoned and left to die? NO. But if one is in the middle of an empty lot, and cannot land on anyone or anything, it is better to poison it than leave it to grow bigger and spread seeds everywhere.

[BradW]

Ask your partner if dead trees are safer on the ground.

[shockwave rider]

quote:

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Originally posted by BradW

Ask your partner if dead trees are safer on the ground.

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That is a given, but the hundreds of off island owners who have giant albizia growing on their properties are not going to pay more than the land is worth to clear the trees. So the choice is not dead on the ground or dead standing, it is dead standing until it crumbles or live standing trees that get bigger and more dangerous every year while setting thousands of very light weight seeds that blow for miles and seed previously albizia free land with the tree from hell. If these trees had the value of comparably sized doug fir they would be logged, but there is no commercial use on the same scale as the number of trees in Puna, so unless people do something about them they are going to continue to spread.

Virtually all of the problems from Iselle were from albizia, a few ohia and ironwood trees fell, but the crushed houses, cars, and damaged power lines were almost all from albizia. If the weather prognosticators are correct, we will have another round of tree clearing by storm this year, which is more dangerous in a hurricane: a dried out dead albizia with no canopy, or the same tree live with a large canopy that can cover up to 1/2 an acre?

Off island owners don't care, they won't be without power for weeks, and local property owners can't afford to pay a tree crew $5000 per tree to remove an acre or more of big albizia. Poisoning and leaving to rot is not a great solution, and is not a solution at all in many situations, but when talking about large swathes of uninhabited land it is the only viable solution. Small trees up to a foot in diameter can be cut, my partner does it with a hand saw and someone on a rope to control the fall, but the behemoths have outgrown that solution.

[kalakoa]

the hundreds of off island owners who have giant albizia growing on their properties are not going to pay more than the land is worth to clear the trees

Tax the trees based on girth until it's cheaper to cut them down.

[BradW]

Understood. I think our difference in opinion was related to scale - mine a tree or two, and yours more about the area. Sorry if I offended you - not my intent, I promise.

If I were there I'd show up in the morning with a truck full of power tools and kick some serious albizia ass. Best of luck with your challenge and please do enjoy your dream on the Big I.

[shockwave rider]

quote:

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Originally posted by BradW

Understood. I think our difference in opinion was related to scale - mine a tree or two, and yours more about the area. Sorry if I offended you - not my intent, I promise.

If I were there I'd show up in the morning with a truck full of power tools and kick some serious albizia ass. Best of luck with your challenge and please do enjoy your dream on the Big I.

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No offense taken, I just know how dangerous this tree is from personal experience during Iselle. It is nothing like what you or my partner experienced in the PNW, the closest thing would be the monster doug firs that land on houses in neighborhoods built on steep hillsides during heavy winter rains, but that is nothing on the scale of the albizia problem here. If you spend a little time on Bing maps (birds eye view) you will see miles and miles of what looks like broccoli, those are the albizia, it is eye opening to see the scale of the problem when you see it from the air. There is probably some little bug somewhere that would at least limit the spread of these trees, but then we would lose all the monkeypod trees.