Potential restrictions to Mauna Kea access

[Guest]

I recently met a guy from Sweden. One of the most civilized places on earth. He hated it. I mean he utterly loathed the place. Said he didn't bother learning the names of the girls anymore. Nothing good to say about it at all. Sweden was 'boring', so he hated his own country. Because it gave him an easy life and was 'boring'.

I guess the point of this is that the more people have, the emptier everything around them seems to become. When they have it all, there is no longer anything of any value to be found anywhere. So they become obsessed with tearing it all down. Because it is 'boring'. This seems to be human nature, and we are getting there in the USA and particularly Hawaii. We have it all here, and soon will have the the crown jewel of human high technology on our sacred mountaintop revealing the deepest secrets of the cosmos to all humanity. And the local people only want to tear it down. They want nothing more than a pile of rocks dumped out of the back of a pickup truck onto the ground. Because the pile of rocks is 'sacred' and the deepest aspirations of humanity for knowledge of our place in the universe is not.

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You can't fix Samsara.

[kalakoa]

How is that going to work? All the news comes from Honolulu.

Yes. Exactly my point. It would be awesome.

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by imagtek

This seems to be human nature, and we are getting there in the USA and particularly Hawaii. We have it all here, and soon will have the the crown jewel of human high technology on our sacred mountaintop revealing the deepest secrets of the cosmos to all humanity. And the local people only want to tear it down. They want nothing more than a pile of rocks dumped out of the back of a pickup truck onto the ground. Because the pile of rocks is 'sacred' and the deepest aspirations of humanity for knowledge of our place in the universe is not.

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imagtek, I think you are wrong in your analysis in many respects.
1) Please don't lump the obstructionists with "local people" - there is a small number of the local population that actually support these jokers. Clearly, the situation is frustrating and the reaction is to assume that the obstruction attitude is broadly held because few speak up to counter the theatrics. The majority of the born-and-raised local folk have a deep distaste for confrontation and simply won't get involved, publicly, in a dog fight like this. That doesn't mean that they don't support the project. Sorry, local custom, gotta accept it, and deal with it, as best you can in situations like this.
2) The motivation behind the protestors, IMHO, isn't boredom. It's a mix of envy and opportunism. There's an old-time (local) parable of the a'ama crab that, supposedly unlike other crabs, when captured in a bucket won't cooperate so that all can escape. Instead, when they see one crab get ahead of the others, will work to pull him back down so that no one escapes. They see the installation of a world-class scientific installation as someone, not part of their social group, succeeding; they're being left behind - gotta pull them big shots down.

The opportunism is simply that, by blocking this high profile project, the opportunists are looking for more (personal) stature in their community/sub-group, more money to Hawaiians (Eco/Ethno-Extortion), and more progress toward sovereignty (however they may choose to define it).

The allusions to Hawaiian culture (sacredness and aloha 'aina) is part of the opportunism - it's a convenient cover that can't be legally challenged or rationally argued. (For those who would like to challenge me on that statement, how many of the protestors/protectors have ever shown up for the volunteer invasive weed pulling Saturdays organized on a regular basis for several years by OMKM? - How many have volunteered to repair the vandalized fencing - likely instigated/inspired by Palikapu Dedman and his cohorts - that was installed to exclude damaging ungulates from the Natural Area Reserves?) This, to my thinking, is all just another example of the further use and abuse of Hawaiian culture, and of other sincere but credulous Hawaiians, in the interest of very modern objectives.

Completely frustrating for those in the community who are working hard to bring everyone forward and provide opportunities for all who are willing to participate - but maybe the best reaction is also part of the local ethic - keep your head down, work as hard as you are able, never give up, and progress will come in its own good time.

[kalakoa]

Please don't lump the obstructionists with "local people"

The one with his face in all the media shots seems pretty ... "fair-skinned", I've always wondered about that.

[Amrita]

"The allusions to Hawaiian culture (sacredness and aloha 'aina) is part of the opportunism - it's a convenient cover that can't be legally challenged or rationally argued. (For those who would like to challenge me on that statement, how many of the protestors/protectors have ever shown up for the volunteer invasive weed pulling Saturdays organized on a regular basis for several years by OMKM? - How many have volunteered to repair the vandalized fencing - likely instigated/inspired by Palikapu Dedman and his cohorts - that was installed to exclude damaging ungulates from the Natural Area Reserves?) This, to my thinking, is all just another example of the further use and abuse of Hawaiian culture, and of other sincere but credulous Hawaiians, in the interest of very modern objectives. "

I like your thinking you nailed it.

[MarkP]

Excellent points, Geochem.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

A nearby massive black hole would be very helpful. Do you happen to know of any or where I can buy one?

I think you're in luck Tom, and you can't beat the price. I've come across a region that may in fact be a massive black hole, or at the very least condensed dark matter. The part I've seen consists mainly of an immeasurably dense wavelength that attempts to radiate in all directions simultaneously, perhaps in reaction to focused gravitational forces. It exerts an irresistible pull when I approach, then even should I attempt to escape I'm drawn helplessly deeper and deeper, inside a place that has the capability to bend almost everything in it's grasp; light, logic, both body and mind, which when further reduced by the immense drag can disassociate itself from all we know as reality into a non-substance I call no-matter*.

It's easier to find than you would think, just turn to the Comments section of almost any website or daily newspaper.

* Here is an unedited example of no-matter, which no matter how you read it, won't make any sense, will fail to answer the question the author raised, or even stay on the topic the writer himself introduced:
I have done research and found the Military is involved, yes , you read right...This 3 Meter telescope is far more that looking at planets, NASA is already doing that...think about it, the capability of the 3 Meter can be used to destroy an entire Country. Oh proof ?, i got that too..and so does a few others who i know what it does...now as for the Governor locking the restrooms...

[Lodestone]

quote:

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Originally posted by TomK

A nearby massive black hole would be very helpful. Do you happen to know of any or where I can buy one?

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Amazon carries them. I tried to order one, but got the dreaded "cannot ship to this location" message.

PS: The return policy is complicated. You have to use the wormhole to go back in time and tell yourself not to buy one.

[knieft]

quote:

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Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge


It's easier to find than you would think, just turn to the Comments section of almost any website or daily newspaper.

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Had me going. I thought the punchline was PunaWeb!

Cheers,
Kirt

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Oh, they're serious now.
They made a sign, and to show they're going to stay one step ahead of the situation this time they've already put the bullet holes in it:
https://instagram.com/p/5auATopjOe/