Alternatives to Mauna Kea

[TomK]

"A Chinese base on the dark side of the moon. Sounds like the plot to an old Bond film"

Can't disagree with that! However, there is some serious thought about a lunar telescope on the far side of the moon. Not as an alternative to Mauna Kea of course, but there are some potential advantages.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sci...moonscope/

Obviously, a full EIS will need to be done first though.

[Guest]

An optical telescope on the dark side of the moon makes no sense. The dark side of the moon gets just as much sunlight as the side towards the earth.

What DOES make sense is to smooth out a crater on the dark side of the moon into a parabolic curve (1000 meters or so), spray coat it with a microwave reflectant, and hoist a receiver over the focus. Shielded from the microwave chatter from earth it would have more gathering surface than all the antennas on earth combined by orders of magnitude. Run fiber optic cable (a piece of spagetti) to the side of the moon where the earth is always visible and shoot the billion-channel signal to research labs with a laser.

Then we would know if we are alone. We would really, finally know. A lot cheaper than yet-another pointless war.


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You can't fix Samsara.

[VancouverIslander]

Unfortunately, the cost of transport of materials to the moon are prohibitively expensive. Hubble, which took advantage of much cheaper rocket technology to merely reach orbit, cost $2.5 billion in 1990 dollars and has cost a cumulative 10 bilion by 2010. The cost for an observatory on the moon would be much greater. Orbiting telescopes are a cheaper option, but not cheaper than earth based, despite the much larger infrastructure required to support their mass and aim them.

Just call me Mike

[Guest]

Mt Fuji, mt Graham, or low orbiting telescopes could be other possible choices for this TMT project? I believe the 180foot tall Dome that the TMT wants to build is to protect the very sensitive lenses from the severity of high winds? This is probably one of the reasons why they want to build the TMT in a lower depression or manmade hole atop maunakea. They would like us to believe they are doing that for us islanders, as so we won't have such an eyesore or visual impact.

Are we alone in the universe or even our own galaxy? What kind of life would be worthy of finding or identifying? What kind of life could live on or in such harsh environments, maybe the same kind of life or living organism's that are being disturbed or moved from the summit of Maunakea? If the astronomers can not see, respect, or recognize the importance of life within their own environment, maybe we have the wrong people observing or searching for life elsewhere through these telescope lenses? Maybe its the increasingly clearer and expanding what ifs, that will continue to sell the hard to book viewing time (the observatories gold rush)?

Could Hawaiians or the state of Hawaii build their own Worlds largest telescope, where they want it ofcourse? Maybe bishop estates, Kamehameha, or the Oha's of the islands could pool together, of course after they settle all the threatened TMT law suits? It does not feel like the protesters or Hawaiians are against science or the TMT itself, only where and how it is being built or developed. The selling or handling of the land atop maunakea or past observatory projects have not gone as expected or promised, unfortunately helping our community get to this current situation. There are an awful lot of plumber Joe types here on the island. Who would like to know why their mountains environment needs to change so much and what benefits will this current TMT project bring to them or their Ohana's?

[kalakoa]

Are we alone in the universe or even our own galaxy?

I don't take lack of contact to indicate there's nobody there -- I think we're just not worth bothering with, given the way we behave.

[beepbeep]

I do not understand how astronomers are showing disrespect. They have been so careful to be inoffensive on the Mauna. I have to admit I envy you having astronomy as an industry. I've got oil spills, fighting about frackiing which could contaminate what water we have left, and then there's always the nuclear power plant that was built on earthquake faults and has resisted upgrading for many years. But our mountains aren't high enough for a TMT here.

Since telescopes are very expensive and don't make money, it is good to have someone else build it and also have them contribute money to the community.
Pam in CA

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

A Chinese base on the dark side of the moon. Sounds like the plot to an old Bond film

Here's a giant radio telescope already under construction in China. It's 500 meters across, or roughly a third of a mile:
http://io9.com/china-is-building-an-abso...1719983857

[kalakoa]

Here's a giant radio telescope already under construction in China.

China doesn't allow protests.

[PunaMauka2]

random trivia side note:

new term for protestors - Aloha ‘Aina patriots.

source: https://maunaawakea.com/posts/la-120-alo...-mauna-kea (can't exactly say it's really worth the read)

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

China doesn't allow protests.

If you build it, they will not come.