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'hypothetically speaking' If in some miraculous way it came about that all non indigenous left Hawaii and rendering all Mainland Hawaiians foreigners that must return and live under the New Kingdom. What upheaval there would be and If we were not to intervene. How long would it be before some nation invaded and wiped out what was left of the Hawaiian people?
It's impossible... Best we work out our differences.
I can see no end to this nonsense in sight.
One Thing I can always be sure of is that things will never go as expected.
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The Mountain of Maunakea is a perfect place to stand ground or rise up, many reasons for the Hawaiian people.
They should have stood up in the beginning rather than wage a "submarine attack" just before the groundbreaking seven years later.
How can anyone expect to have an honest, open discussion after such deception?
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These extremes need to be examined in the light of history. The Hawaiian monarchy had sold off all these lands long before the overthrow, so returning to a Hawaiian kingdom doesn't mean ejecting all the haole.
Again, the Hawaiian Kingdom movement is being orchestrated by Republicans. That is because Democrats back the Hawaiian Nation status. The sad thing is the Republican party is the conservative christian party and these were the same people that orchestrated the overthrow in the first place.
The other big problem for the Hawaiian Kingdom movement people is they have a huge split inconsistency with their justifications. That is, the Hawaiian monarchy at the time of the overthrow were thoroughly indoctrinated christians. Under christianity, to believe the land of pagan gods was sacred was go straight to hell blasphemy. That means the "sacred lands" were no longer recognized as sacred under christianity, which Queen Liliuokalani was a devout one. All of those lands had been deemed crown lands for several generations by the time Queen Liliuokalani ascended the throne. That is why Mauna Kea had been all sold or leased out by the time of the overthrow. The monarchy had long stopped believing there was anything special about Mauna Kea other than an economic opportunity.
Basically, using sacred land as a platform of the Hawaiian Kingdom movement is contradictory, and shows either supreme ignorance about their own history or exposes it as another shifty, deceitful ploy by scheming mixed race locals. These maka'ainana have no cultural rights if they are using the monarchy at the time of the overthrow as their reference point. In fact, BLNR has more cultural rights since they were assigned with the stewardship of the crown lands.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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"The statement written was only an opinion of mine"
Gypsy, just because you put "jmo" after every ridiculous statement you write, it doesn't mean your mindless drivel can't be challenged.
Now please tell us more about punching people on golf courses, this could be crucial.
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I was up at the Visitor's Center this morning, around 10am, and at least then it was pretty chill. There were about 8-10 cars parked in front of the protestor's dwelling (not quite sure what to call it), and I saw 1-2 of them milling around, but nothing official going on.
I gotta say, I feel a little bad for some of the tourists. This plainly isn't their home and doesn't impact where they live, but it does impact their travel plans. My guess is that - outside of Hawaii itself - this story is not getting much national (let alone international) news, and I saw many people come up to the Visitor's Center, see it was closed (including the parking lot), and then turn around. It kind of reminded me of the Griswold's finding out that Wally World was closed.
Trying to put myself in their shoes, it would be like if I traveled to Paris to find out that the Eiffel Tower was closed because of protestors. I might be a little interested in what they were protesting, but mainly I'd be pissed that I'd traveled so far only to have my travel plans thwarted. I had this happen once at Iguazu Falls in Argentina, and I was livid - I didn't care what the protest was about or why people were protesting, I just knew that I'd planned my trip a year in advance and couldn't see what I wanted to see, wasting my hard-earned money.
So, whether or not TMT eventually goes forward, or whether or not this makes a dent in the sovereignty movement, I really hope that the two sides can quickly get to the point where the Mountain and Visitor Center are open to all. Because on days like today, with gorgeous weather and outstanding views, make Mauna Kea one of the most incredible places on Earth to visit and enjoy.
Leilani Estates, 2011 to Present
2nd that Justin.
Apologies to Opihikao in advance but maybe you can talk some sense into them.
" For the keiki " is such B.S. for ("whereto") starters ... IMO
Simple question:
" Hey, you want to go up the top of our planet's highest mountain and check out some of the worlds greatest telescope(s) that can 'see' into the past ? " Ask them please.
What non-brainwashed,-video-game-jaded kid is going to say no to that ???
Then watch the reaction when you break the news >>> " Sorry, a few people who did not like that idea stopped it from happening. " " We can't even go up there now. " ***
Speaking of children, Gypsy why don't you pose the above question to your kids ?
I hope they don't read this thread because right now, you sound like a kid throwing gravel towards the highway from behind a rock.
Unless one is doing it ( responding ) just for sport or as launching pad, its an exercise in futility expecting logical response.
*** and yeah, I know the road is open... whateva.
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
The Mountain of Maunakea is a perfect place to stand ground or rise up, many reasons for the Hawaiian people.
They should have stood up in the beginning rather than wage a "submarine attack" just before the groundbreaking seven years later.
How can anyone expect to have an honest, open discussion after such deception?
"They" did....for years. Decades. No one ("of decision making" stature) listened. Thus, we are where we are.
Reference the documents, and lately, the videos of the same. Far longer than the "seven (7) years", for the record. As an example, check out the testimonies provided, up to and including, the recent UH meetings. Some have been fighting this battle, including the respected Pua Kanakaole (among others), for decades. (*Gotta go get your own links via "Google" or whatever, 'cause apparently, I provide too many "cute" links. lol [  ])
This is not, by any means, a "new battle". The (our) "voices" have been silenced (might as well beat our hands and bodies as the missionaries did when teachers spoke Hawaiian to their pupils. Just saying). Not just TMT, but several other telescopes during the negotiation period. Yet, the permits are issued, just like TMT. TMT will (and must proceed, otherwise, lawsuits we ALL pay for).
pog, another tall order. [:0] There is no sense to be made with TMT; None. Crossroads, as it were. Both sides (in my small, little, manini world) aren't budging. SMH.
Going to listen to some "nahenahe" music whilst contemplating all of this kuleana.
Mahalo ke Akua for giving us (my immediate ohana) Puna as our charge. This matter (Mauna a Wakea/Mauna Kea) is beyond comprehension on both sides at this point.
JMO.
ETA: typo. Kala mai.
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
These extremes need to be examined in the light of history. The Hawaiian monarchy had sold off all these lands long before the overthrow, so returning to a Hawaiian kingdom doesn't mean ejecting all the haole.
Again, the Hawaiian Kingdom movement is being orchestrated by Republicans. That is because Democrats back the Hawaiian Nation status. The sad thing is the Republican party is the conservative christian party and these were the same people that orchestrated the overthrow in the first place.
The other big problem for the Hawaiian Kingdom movement people is they have a huge split inconsistency with their justifications. That is, the Hawaiian monarchy at the time of the overthrow were thoroughly indoctrinated christians. Under christianity, to believe the land of pagan gods was sacred was go straight to hell blasphemy. That means the "sacred lands" were no longer recognized as sacred under christianity, which Queen Liliuokalani was a devout one. All of those lands had been deemed crown lands for several generations by the time Queen Liliuokalani ascended the throne. That is why Mauna Kea had been all sold or leased out by the time of the overthrow. The monarchy had long stopped believing there was anything special about Mauna Kea other than an economic opportunity.
Basically, using sacred land as a platform of the Hawaiian Kingdom movement is contradictory, and shows either supreme ignorance about their own history or exposes it as another shifty, deceitful ploy by scheming mixed race locals. These maka'ainana have no cultural rights if they are using the monarchy at the time of the overthrow as their reference point. In fact, BLNR has more cultural rights since they were assigned with the stewardship of the crown lands.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
Absolutely pure, horse-cr@p. Republicans have nothing to do with this. Pahoated - you are an IDIOT!
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quote:
Originally posted by pahoated
These extremes need to be examined in the light of history. The Hawaiian monarchy had sold off all these lands long before the overthrow, so returning to a Hawaiian kingdom doesn't mean ejecting all the haole.
Again, the Hawaiian Kingdom movement is being orchestrated by Republicans. That is because Democrats back the Hawaiian Nation status. The sad thing is the Republican party is the conservative christian party and these were the same people that orchestrated the overthrow in the first place.
The other big problem for the Hawaiian Kingdom movement people is they have a huge split inconsistency with their justifications. That is, the Hawaiian monarchy at the time of the overthrow were thoroughly indoctrinated christians. Under christianity, to believe the land of pagan gods was sacred was go straight to hell blasphemy. That means the "sacred lands" were no longer recognized as sacred under christianity, which Queen Liliuokalani was a devout one. All of those lands had been deemed crown lands for several generations by the time Queen Liliuokalani ascended the throne. That is why Mauna Kea had been all sold or leased out by the time of the overthrow. The monarchy had long stopped believing there was anything special about Mauna Kea other than an economic opportunity.
Basically, using sacred land as a platform of the Hawaiian Kingdom movement is contradictory, and shows either supreme ignorance about their own history or exposes it as another shifty, deceitful ploy by scheming mixed race locals. These maka'ainana have no cultural rights if they are using the monarchy at the time of the overthrow as their reference point. In fact, BLNR has more cultural rights since they were assigned with the stewardship of the crown lands.
"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
With due respect, pahoated; ?????
A'ole factual. Sorry.
JMO.
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Oplhlkao:
Don't equate not listing with not agreeing.
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