The History of the overthrow told by Hawaiians

[dakine]

So many here, especially since the beginning of the Hawaiians taking a stand on Mauna Kea, have voiced their opinions on the rights of the Hawaiian verses the USA, and in so many instances have sighted history as a justification for their point of view. The overthrow right or wrong, what took place when and by whom, with reams of URLs pointing to acts and laws and all sorts of references to back up whatever point is being made.

One interesting thing about all the history sighted is the thought that history itself is malleable and often what has been said needs to be considered along with who's doing the telling, and when we consider the history of the overthrow we rarely stop to reflect on who's version of the overthrow are we referencing?

Further, a lot of folks here (PW) seem to cast the native Hawaiian as less educated, less accomplished, and the people that were overthrown less worthy of the right to governance than the conquering powers. As if there is some evidence that the Hawaiian people at the time of the overthrow were not wholly embracing modern society, not seeking higher educations, not capable of self determination. Though I have not heard anyone reflect on the source of this point of view. It is just held up as fact, as reason to further justify their belief that American dominance of the islands is justified.

Recently Dr. Ronald Williams Jr. presented a whole different viewpoint that comes clear when Hawaiian history is researched from preserved Hawaiian-print archives. And, further shows that for nearly a century the story of Hawaii's past has been told through an exclusively english language narrative that has worked to silence the voices of its native people. A recent talk given, in Puna, by Dr. Ronald Williams Jr can be watched here:

http://youtu.be/OOvxSxAXi20

This talk is such an eye opener. This should be required viewing to all of us before we form our own opinions imo.

[rainyjim]

I for one don't need to hear any particular narrative before forming my own opinion. Anyone with a rudimentary education including world history and international relations can easily determine that more successful cultures dominate less successful cultures. The fact that we are ruling now speaks volumes. Technology, innovation, and adaptation have always been key to dominate as a culture.

The Romans developed roads, aqueducts, and fielded legions through conscription which eventualy led to the largest empire seen yet.

The Umayyad Caliphate developed a complex system of governance including state sponsored post offices, archives, courts, mints and banks there empire was so successful it also developed into the largest the world had ever seen. If it wasn't for the Charles Martel defeating the Umayyad Caliphate in 732 this conversation would probably be in arabic.

Then of course there was the British who also developed into largest empire the world had ever seen and termed "the empire on which the sun never sets." The British also dominated through innovation at the Battle of Trafalgar the British fleet defeated a Spanish and French fleet which due to supeior British tactics was one of the most decisive naval battles in all of history with 22 of 33 French and Spanish ships sunk and zero British ships sunk.
To this day the British are one of the most powerful countries on the planet.

This is contrasted by societies that either refused to adapt or were unable to before being swept away. So manu socities and cultures once existed that no longer have any kind of representation except maybe in a history text as a short footnote.

This is the natural course of culture. It happened, it happening, and it will happen again. Hawaii is no different the current ethnic group claiming to be native - though they arrived here in canoes from polynesia are also guilty of it - there were already other people here which they subsequently took the land from and exterminated the survivors.

As of 2013 over 30 million people still live in slavery. The word isn't a pretty place and those who don't thank their lucky stars they are fortunate enough to live in the United States are free to pack up and go elsewhere.

People don't get there land back by whining about the past - they get it through war. Look at the pipeline haliburton just finished building from Iraq to Israel. Look at the Ukraine - once again under Russian domination.

A lot of people in Hawaii live in there own little fantasy world. Well I say its time for them to wake up! Contribute and do something meaningful stop sitting around bitching, moaning and begging for handouts. Get up off you derriere and do something to make life better for your children. Every $250.00 spent getting bailed out of jail could have bought a lot of school supplies, new shoes, and heathy meals. If you've got problems, solve them. Moaning about the past and asking for 'Uncle Sam' to wave his magic wand and make it all 'right' again is never going to get you anywhere.

And foremost - get a job.

[opihikao]

EO, dakine.

FYI, as it relates to history, a very good read by Peter Young:

(*Snipped - Much more at link)

http://imagesofoldhawaii.com/its-about-n...-not-race/


It's About Nationality, Not Race


Today, there remain ongoing claims and discussions about restoring the Hawaiian Government that was deposed on January 17, 1893 and replaced by the Provisional Government of Hawai#699;i, later the Republic of Hawai'i, then annexation and statehood.

The Hawaiian nation was overthrown … not the Hawaiian race (it was a constitutional monarchy, not race-limited.)


ETA: omit #699 in Hawai'i

[TomK]

"Further, a lot of folks here (PW) seem to cast the native Hawaiian as less educated, less accomplished, and the people that were overthrown less worthy of the right to governance than the conquering powers. As if there is some evidence that the Hawaiian people at the time of the overthrow were not wholly embracing modern society, not seeking higher educations, not capable of self determination. Though I have not heard anyone reflect on the source of this point of view. It is just held up as fact, as reason to further justify their belief that American dominance of the islands is justified."

Bolding is mine. This is the kind of comment that I feel requires evidence to support it, and hope dakine will be able to provide it, otherwise it's hyperbole.

[lavalava]

another crappy Dakine post. jus da kine rubbish you like throwaway...

[LaurelJ]

Rainyjim:

I would add to your perspective this.

While it's true successful cultures do dominate less successful cultures, history also show time and again, these cultures because they think they are all that, they become over the course of time arrogant, eventually get just to big for their britches and it proves to be their undoing [:I] just sayin'

Not making any reference to Hawaii at all just a general historical observation.

[kalakoa]

cast the native Hawaiian as less educated, less accomplished

Same things were said about the blacks, usually as a justification for their enslavement.

[LaurelJ]

On second thought is it possible it isn't even necessarily that the dominate culture isn't more successful, could be that they just have more brawn and a more conquering perhaps even evil spirit. As a few examples of this, look to the Russian Empire, or Germany during WW!! or even the Ottoman Empire. It wasn't that they were that successful it was just that they had a more waring, conquering spirit. [:I]

[Mtviewdude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by opihikao

EO, dakine.

FYI, as it relates to history, a very good read by Peter Young:

(*Snipped - Much more at link)

http://imagesofoldhawaii.com/its-about-n...-not-race/


It's About Nationality, Not Race


Today, there remain ongoing claims and discussions about restoring the Hawaiian Government that was deposed on January 17, 1893 and replaced by the Provisional Government of Hawai#699;i, later the Republic of Hawai'i, then annexation and statehood.

The Hawaiian nation was overthrown … not the Hawaiian race (it was a constitutional monarchy, not race-limited.)


ETA: omit #699 in Hawai'i

---

I disagree. While the Hawaiian Nation was a multi-racial all-inclusive constitutional monarchy, the current Hawaiian soventry is all about Race.

Kamehameha Schools, DHHL, well just about everything Hawaiian now a days is race only and exclusionary.

[seekir]

I think few who know the history of the U.S. and of European conquest/colonization of other lands can overlook the depredation that native populations have endured at the hands of expansionists. The Hawaiian nation surely has legitimate unresolved grievances.

However, many believe that the overthrow of the Hawaiian Monarchy in particular was largely due to the concerns of the powerful plantation captains like Dole, Thurston etc. for their economic interests. Thurston Twigg-Smith (in his book Does The Truth Matter) asserted that Kalakaua's desire to emulate English royalty with all of it's ostentatious and expensive paraphernalia had placed the nation in a precarious position. The monarchy's profligate spending resulted in deep debt and in the eyes of the plantation interests made the King vulnerable to the influence of foreign powers such as Japan and Russia. After Kalakaua's death, Liliuokalani's effort to reject the "bayonet constitution" and reestablish the monarchy was perceived to be a threat by these same actors who were determined to protect their interests. It's interesting that President Grover Cleveland, whom I believe was elected during or shortly after the "annexation" of Hawaii was regarded as an "anti-imperialist" and ruled that the Hawaiian monarchy should be reinstated. The reinstatement of course was never consummated, and Cleveland's successor McKinley, who probably recognized the strategic and economic value of the territory, embraced the annexation.

The strategic location of Hawaii nei makes it a very interesting target for the Pacific rim powers and I would argue that Hawaii would inevitably have been taken by one of these others if the U.S. hadn't established control over the island territory and eventually made it a state. Most likely Japan, or Russia (the latter built a fort on Kauai which still stands). The end result is perhaps mixed for Hawaiians who have been largely deprived of economic justice and lands. However, many realize that quality of life in a monarchy depends on the quality of the monarch of the moment, and that properly formulated representative government in which leadership can be rejected or replaced by voters is generally a better option.