Posts: 11,028
Threads: 751
Joined: Sep 2012
what reparations the new Hawaiian government owes to the Menehune?
No doubt any reparations will take the form of Ronald Reagan's successful Trickle Down Economics Program. Under Reagan money from the rich made it's way by natural forces to the middle class and then eventually to the poor.
Trickle Down Reparations will work in much the same manner. When money from the US Government is transferred to the New Hawaiian Government, it will create a system to disperse those funds to it's citizens. Probably using OHA or DHHL as a model. Then, the New Hawaiian citizens, with their experience and understanding of having had their land, culture, and religion appropriated, repressed or destroyed, will continue to distribute a fair share of the monetary and land distribution to the Menehune.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
Posts: 171
Threads: 3
Joined: Mar 2013
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
Sometimes, we should listen very carefully to the issue at hand, instead of trying to break down the efforts of some very educated Hawaiian people. By minimalizing the rights of kanaka maoli on our home land, contributes to the "warfare", as it were.
Just a couple of questions. So what "rights" do the "Kanaka Maoli" claim that differ from those who were born here, and not of the polynesian race.
The reason I ask, is for 99% of the "Kanaka Maoli" the "rights" they have now far exceed any rights they had under Hawaiian Kingdom rule and far more then they ever accorded the "original Native Hawaiians"
The protestors are exercising the American right to protest and free speech, under the Hawaiian Kingdom they most likely would have been put to death.
I am hard pressed to think of any "right" or "privilege" that they had back then that they don't have now, except maybe "self-determination" or "slavery". Then I would say, it was a Kingdom and they had no choice then, at least now they get to vote.
Posts: 349
Threads: 7
Joined: Aug 2014
...and it was under the Kingdom's lack of medical care/hygiene that the population dropped 10 fold or more. Machine-guns would not have deterred a mass of millions.
***Still can't figure out how to spell 'car' correctly***
Posts: 119
Threads: 6
Joined: Dec 2013
Thanks for that, rainyjim. Much needed here.
Posts: 1,219
Threads: 52
Joined: Dec 2014
quote:
Originally posted by MattKarma
...and it was under the Kingdom's lack of medical care/hygiene that the population dropped 10 fold or more. Machine-guns would not have deterred a mass of millions.
That is not really a fair statement. The Hawaiians were a very healthy population, until they encountered unfamiliar diseases they had never been exposed to before. With no natural immunities they died in droves, the same thing has been repeated all over the world whenever isolated populations encounter explorers and their diseases.
European sailors of this era were not exactly paragons of cleanliness and virtue, they were considered the lowest of the low by european and American society of the time. They carried all kinds of communicable diseases, including various STDs. Even the common cold is deadly to a population that has never been exposed to it, not to mention syphilis or measles. The missionaries did have somewhat better hygiene practices, but the population was already decimated by the time they got here, right after Kamehameha's reign was over.
Posts: 171
Threads: 3
Joined: Mar 2013
quote:
Originally posted by shockwave rider
quote:
Originally posted by MattKarma
...and it was under the Kingdom's lack of medical care/hygiene that the population dropped 10 fold or more. Machine-guns would not have deterred a mass of millions.
That is not really a fair statement. The Hawaiians were a very healthy population, until they encountered unfamiliar diseases they had never been exposed to before. With no natural immunities they died in droves, the same thing has been repeated all over the world whenever isolated populations encounter explorers and their diseases.
European sailors of this era were not exactly paragons of cleanliness and virtue, they were considered the lowest of the low by european and American society of the time. They carried all kinds of communicable diseases, including various STDs. Even the common cold is deadly to a population that has never been exposed to it, not to mention syphilis or measles. The missionaries did have somewhat better hygiene practices, but the population was already decimated by the time they got here, right after Kamehameha's reign was over.
You might want to read this paper regarding Hawaii population trends pre contact, really interesting read.
https://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/b...sequence=1
TLDR; Hawaii population most likely stopped growing pre-contact ~1502 and the estimate of Hawaii population when Cook arrived was most likely around 200-250k.
The reason why i find it interesting was the population points at around
(wikipedia, i know)
1800 was about 250k
1832 was about 130k
1890 was about 89k.
What i find interesting is pre-contact to 1800 the population is relatively stables and took a hit between 1800-1832. This is the time when Kamehameha's wars on the other islands was in full swing.
I am not saying disease wasn't a huge factor, but armies were famous back then for transmitting disease and unhealthy conditions. I seem to recall reading somewhere that a lot of Kamehameha's warriors died to disease.
If you add in war and most likely famine that might cause things to really hit the fan.
Posts: 1,100
Threads: 6
Joined: Nov 2010
quote:
Originally posted by opihikao
The difference is Mauna Kea/Mauna a Wakea is Crown Lands/Ceded Lands, not to mention, Conservation land. It is also "public land" (State), not someone's residence or rental property.
JMOO. (lol)
P.S. For the record, if you have not been to Mauna Kea during the protest, there are many "real" Hawaiians. No question. Can't lump all of the kanaka together because of acts of a few.
One of the main protest organizers is Chase Kahookahi Kanuha, same last name as two of the squatters. Coincidence?
Posts: 1,975
Threads: 47
Joined: Jul 2012
quote:
Originally posted by rainyjim
When do we find out what reparations the new Hawaiian government owes to the Menehune?
Though apparenty amusing to some this isn't just levity...I'm seriously interested and expect an answer from all the native / sovereign apologists. You're all so quick to jump all over all the wrongs suffered and the lack of understanding or empathy, but not so much as a peep for the Menehune? Hypocrites!
Posts: 735
Threads: 20
Joined: May 2006
The menehune are extinct so no reparations are needed. They were exterminated or assimilated and no longer exist as a separate people.
Posts: 1,440
Threads: 4
Joined: Sep 2014
quote:
Originally posted by bystander
The menehune are extinct so no reparations are needed. They were exterminated or assimilated and no longer exist as a separate people.
Well that shuts down the whole anti-reinstated Kingdom argument.
Roll out the red carpet!
Where's my genealogical chart, let's milk this thing.
