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sovereignty squatters arrested
#61
quote:
Originally posted by dakine

This sovereignty issue is such an energy drainer for all of us in Hawaii...

Classic PW BS


Nope I'm not part of the regular crowd here and don't work at an observatory. I tend to disagree with a good deal of the posting here.

Most folk that I know in the real world agree with this including those of supposed Hawaiian heritage who consider themselves immigrants just like you and me dakine. Nobody gets to be more special, we are blessed to live in America, land of equality. If you don't think so do a little travelling around the world, and make sure you stop in a few developing countries too.
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#62
quote:
Originally posted by bystander

More non Hawaiians have become sympathetic to the sovereignty movement.

I'm finding the opposite to be the case, but nobody that I know of has done a "scientific" poll. The protesters disregard for the law and refusal to accept a very rigorous permitting process that the TMT completed has soured a lot of people on the sovereignty issue. I remain cautiously supportive of some sort or recognition, but am increasingly concerned about the misplaced effort focused on the TMT instead of the wholesale reform of OHA/DHHL.
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#63
quote:
Originally posted by Punatic007
...Nobody gets to be more special, we are blessed to live in America, land of equality. If you don't think so do a little travelling around the world, and make sure you stop in a few developing countries too.


Very well said, couldn't agree more.
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#64
On the issue of "reparations", why don't we simply dissolve DHHL and OHA and distribute all of their funds to anyone who is at least 50% Hawaiian? That would get rid of 2 bloated agencies and solve the reparation issue all at once.
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#65
quote:
Originally posted by beejee

quote:
Originally posted by Punatic007
...Nobody gets to be more special, we are blessed to live in America, land of equality. If you don't think so do a little travelling around the world, and make sure you stop in a few developing countries too.


Very well said, couldn't agree more.

I'm reminded of the classic picture of the big fish eating the little fish eating the smallest fish, and the caption reads "There is Justice --> There is some Justice --> There is no justice"

It is the same EVERYWHERE in the world ... but in developing countries your dollar buys more.
***Still can't figure out how to spell 'car' correctly***
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#66
in developing countries your dollar buys more.

Hawaii must be the opposite of "developing", my dollar buys less here than in the US.
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#67
quote:
Originally posted by leilanidude

On the issue of "reparations", why don't we simply dissolve DHHL and OHA and distribute all of their funds to anyone who is at least 50% Hawaiian? That would get rid of 2 bloated agencies and solve the reparation issue all at once.



When it comes to reparations, it isn't necessarily about ethnicity, it's more about nationality. The main arguments for sovereignty are about nationality.
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#68
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
There is very little information about the Menehune. Why?

You got fixated on the Menehune as humorous in the beginning and now it has diverged into PW rambling.

There is no information about the Menehune because they are legend, not proven fact, so far. The Micronesians that came first, passed on that they found existing fish ponds and rock walls on Kauai. These sites are massive.

It is about the archaeology. There is evidence of the Micronesians, the Tongans and the Tahitians. Since the Polynesians used almost all natural resource utilization, there is very little that remains physically. The plant matter has long decayed. The subtropical climate with high temperatures, salt spray in the air, sulfuric acid from the volcanoes, other environmental factors, tend to make human remains disintegrate. There is no sedimentary soil, so bone, skin, hair are not preserved. The Hawaiians also used open air "burials", very similar to North American Indians.

Also, the Menehune legend is only for Kauai. The possibility that the Menehune legend has some basis in fact is the recent discovery of Homo floresiensis in Indonesia. There is still a lot of controversy whether this was another human species or just a group of pygmy types that went extinct. The main thing that stands out about Hawaiian legends is that as time goes on, science starts finding possible correlations. Also, an archaeologist commented recently that prehistoric peoples were traveling much further and wider than established western conventional science had thought. There is a really wonderful story of migration developing but the findings are raising a lot of "why" questions relating to climate change, volcanic actiivty, disease and possibly human aggression that caused people to move from where they were to someplace else. The finding that the Beringians (those peoples that crossed the Bering sea from Asia to North America) stopped migrating across the ice sheet for 10,000 years, before some finally left and arrived in North America about 15,000 years ago.

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"
*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*
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#69
My understanding of Menehune is people of little stature. Not in height.
But standing in the community. If I remember right that is what King Kalakaua said in his book Legends & Myths of Hawaii. A must read.
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#70
the Menehune ... has diverged into PW rambling.
The subtropical climate with high temperatures, salt ... volcanoes... tend to make human remains disintegrate.


Then please allow me to continue with some additional rambling.

Human and prehuman remains have been discovered not just thousands of years old, but from millions of years ago in multiple tropical, high rainfall locations in Africa. Homo Erectus was found in Java (hotter and as wet as Hawaii*), and as you pointed out Homo Floresiensis on the island of Flores in Indonesia which dates from about 13,000 years ago.

It's entirely possible that a cave on Kauai will be discovered someday with the remains of the Menehune, which will fill in a lot of blanks in Hawaiian prehistory.

* first dated remains go back 1.9 million years, average temperature 82 degrees, rainfall 86 inches a year
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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