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Is racism a big problem?
#1
Everyone has been so friendly on the forum yet KathyH. posted a reply to Maggie which portrayed a negative image of the community. Even though Maggie is moving in a week or so, Kathy basically told Maggie that her son would have a terrible time in school for being white and that she should re-think about coming. This posting unsettled me as we are definitely moving in September. I have worked hard my whole life and want to live the second part iof my life in an area I find absolutely beautiful plus help out with the nursing shortage. Can I get some input from others on this issue? I know we had problems when we lived on an isolated Indian Reservation. I tan pretty quickly and Mike has a darker complexion anyway and we don't have young kids. I'm hoping to move into a friendly, fun community where we have steady temperatures and the beautiful ocean to play in year round whenever we want to! I'm hoping that this posting is from an isolated person who experienced some issues and is not a community wide problem. We're just two educated, but laid back older hippies. Well, off to the hot tub with a marguaita in hand! Linda & Mike
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#2
Racism is everywhere...
What good people need to do is stand up to it... not run from it.
You should not expect the new home to just happen... you will have to make it your home.




Texan Moving to Puna on July 3rd 2008.
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
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#3
Racism exists all over the U.S. It's nothing new.

My personal belief is the reason racism is an issue on Hawaii is that unlike many other places of he U.S., on Hawaii the people experiencing the racism are "white". Just pretend your a black person in Mississippi, or a red man in Texas, or a latino in Arizona, or an asian in Portland, or an Arab anywhere in the U.S. They live and deal with it everyday, maybe you should ask them for advice on how to handle a little racism on Hawaii.
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#4
LOL... hmm wow... I have had to deal with racism for as long as I can remember. and I am White.

its no different than any other prejudice, just recognized by law.

Texan Moving to Puna on July 3rd 2008.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
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#5
You maybe misunderstood my concern. We've lived with reverse discrimination on two different Indian Reservations. My kids couldn't deal with it well, being beat up at school because they were new. Indians from other reservations had the same problems of beating beat up by the local Sioux. I finally had to almost get into a fist fight with a half blood Indian nurse before they would back off of me. Then they thought I was wonderful. Is this the same mentality there? Similiar to the Indian Reservations here, one Island tried to take over the other Islands. Why is this so much different than what the whites did? Is there rasicm between the Islands there? This is one of the biggest issues my Son complained about when he was stationed in Honolulu with the Navy. Mike & Linda Bowman
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#6
hi, well first, I am not recounting my isolated experiences, or even particularly MY experiences. I am an observer, a listener, a reader, and I try to do so, at this age of my life, with open eyes and ears.

Many years ago, when I was an idealistic flower child, I moved to New Mexico and experienced racism towards myself and all the newcomers. That was a first. Later, during the 70's, I knew many people who visited and moved to Hawai'i, and told me about the racism, as PART of the picture, not the whole picture by any means.

It is neither the entire experience, nor made up. It is real.
I posted my concerns because of the PUBLIC schools. Have you not heard of the current middle school case where one girl bashed another girl's head against the wall, repeatedly, and called her an f*ing haole? Well, it is not the case that chills me so much as the "comments" from the public in response to the incident.

If you don't have kids, the likelihood is that you'll never experience a problem. Especially if you don't come here looking for a job.

Let me be clear that I don't experience racism against myself. But I listen, I listed to people telling me about this haole lady or that haole guy -- and say things like, some haoles are all right ... statements from nice people, that show a racism that isn't even examined.

When I was growing up, my parents taught me never to look at a person's skin color, and I tried to live that way. However, when you come among people who have been oppressed for their race, you will often find that race matters. People here were oppressed by "haoles" for a long time, and in turn they resent them for being here, and they generalize. They think of your race as a big part of your identity, and they were raised to do so.

Unlike myself, who was raised to be colorblind. Maybe not a realistic upbringing, but I wouldn't trade it in.

Local kids here are territorial. My friend who brought her hapa-Hawaiian son over to Hilo told him he couldn't go down to the pavilion unless he had his Hilo friends with him, so he wouldn't get beaten up as a Kona boy in Hilo. And this boy is brown, Hawaiian, but simply from the other side of the island.

After moving here, I've realized that it takes a long long time to be deeply accepted by people here. Superficial acceptance and pleasant interaction is easy. But eventually, I realized that the separation doesn't really go away. It's not MY energy. I came here openhearted.

Part of it is small town. I experienced similar energy when I moved to a small community in the 70's. (Hippie community). Everyone was obsessed with who got their first, as if that made you more or less of a community member. Oldsters didn't mingle with newbies. It was just silly. Eventually I moved down to a more urban area, Berkeley, where it wasn't like that at all, where I had friends of every persuasion, sexuality, ethnic, age, background -- so many friends.

I guess I do feel it stifling to be back in the environment where people care how long you've been here, whether you were born here, whether your grandparents were born here. It is not all coming from a bad space, a lot of it comes from pride of belonging to a place. It is just rather hard on people who are new. Luckily there are plenty of people who are new to become friends with.

The anger I hear of in the schools, the domestic violence I know of, the sexual abuse I know of, the addiction to heavy drugs -- these things weigh on me. I am an idealist, but this is not a utopia, no matter how much you desire utopia. Don't we all?

Well, therein lies a problem. We are coming and people are being pushed out, having a hard time, and they resent the newcomers. How unsurprising, really.

I'm not a negative person, but unlike some of you I have been involved with idealistic communities for many years, different communities, and there is a dark side to everything. I get tired of the word "paradise." I do not believe in earthly paradise. This is the tropics. To people who live in the temperate zone the steady temps seem like paradise, but to the people who are born here, that's not enough to make them happy, you know. The tropics have their own set of challenges.

That said, I really hate being cold!!! [Smile]

I'm not making the school problems up. Just follow the local news. If you want to read a book that chronicles the dark side, read "murder in Paradise" about the Dana Ireland case. The case is incredibly disturbing, but only one incident. What is more disturbing is when you read all the interviews, and you get a look into how some people think and live, people who you may end up sharing a subdivision with. Some scary folks there, and to throw an unprepared 8th grader into the mix, yeah, I was concerned.

Now you can go back to the hot tub and margarita.
Will you be a nurse at the hospital? If so, you will see the dark side. I have been in the Hilo ER ... it is kind of like a cross with a psych ward at night. Scary stuff AND some very nice people. I didn't say there was no bright side, just it isn't ALL bright.
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#7
My wife and I have lived here on The Big Island 13 years and before that Singapore for 5 years. Also lived on the Indian subcontinent 1 year as well as 6 months in Japan. I have never run across any serious racism against me or my wife. Maybe we're just lucky but I tend to think that if you live life with a certain measure of humility and dish Aloha out you will get along fine. Also try to assimilate yourself into your host culture instead of the other way round.

Walk quiet, listen, smile and don't be pushy and you'll probably get on well.

Andrew
___________________________

Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times".
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#8
When I was coming here fifteen years back I was warned that I had made a big mistake and would regret my decision. A newly arrived houle was going to get a cold reception. The people who told me this were wrong. I had the opposite experience.

Over the years I have had some negative moments. I accept them. I accept being one of many minorities here. I think every minority get some negative moments. I understand that various groups will often prefer their own culture but I have also had more experiences of being welcomed than I ever got on the mainland.

Everyone gets their own experience. For some it will be better than others. My advice is to not wait for people to approach you. Approach them. Be open. Be honest. Be respectful. Be here (not from where you came from).





Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator
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#9
>>>Everyone gets their own experience. For some it will be better than others. My advice is to not wait for people to approach you. Approach them. Be open. Be honest. Be respectful. Be here (not from where you came from)

Good advice. Like I said, I've never gotten a bad vibe myself, and I don't predict that most people will. But it would simply be unrealistic not to understand that SOME people out there resent you. You may not ever feel it. You may not ever hear about it. But when they are at home, they talk stink about haoles. And their kids pick it up and internalize it. School is a place where kids can be really mean.

Maggie said she could not afford private school, and the charter schools didn't impress her, so I was concerned. But it sounds like she's on to a promising charter school.

She also did not seem to know much of anything about subdivisions where she planned to build. I have a concern for anyone who comes here without doing the homework.
I would say, best chances of a happy life here go to people who do their homework.
Maybe it's just me, but I think homework includes learning about the whole picture.

I guess I'm unusual here, but I don't care much about "it never happened to me" stories. If it happens to anybody, I feel connected. I'm part of everyone's experience. By all accounts, Dana Ireland was a wonderful, sweet caring person, who just happened to be a little too unconcerned about riding her bike alone ... not thinking about the bad in people. And she paid the price with her life. Did she fail to extend aloha? What did she do wrong? Did she bring it on herself?

If you get back what you give, and your life will be good if you give out good energy, how does one make sense of what happened to her in paradise?
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#10
Can't agree more with what Bob said.

I'm of non-caucasian decent and a recent transplant from the mainland. My advice would be don't take anything for granted, and don't take anything personal. Oh, and always have an exit strategy like I did. Good luck!
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