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quote:
Originally posted by AKpilot
Amen! I can almost assure you the pilots of those heelos were not at 100-300 feet. I fly fixed wing (Jets and turboprop aircraft, not helos) but the feeling is the same amongst most commercial pilots. Your ticket is your bread and butter.
I fly in Alaska, home of the most rule falutten' pilots in the nation. Even here I can tell you, no sane pilot, flying for a reputable company like Blue Hawaiian, Paradise, etc.....is going to risk their jobs and their tickets for a buzz job over a Puna subdivision. Even if it's on the way to the Volcano.
May they do it over the coast? Yes, perhaps. Over water or "sparsely populated ares" the FAA allows a pilot to operate 500 linear feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure.
It's also a bit of a slap in the face to assume pilots don't know the difference between AGL and MSL...... I promise, we do. I am not trying to point fingers, shame anyone, or be a smart ass. I am just a pilot who makes her full time, honest to goodness, living in the sky, and I hate seeing my brethren dragged through the mud. We aren't all money grabbing, buzz-job happy A-holes who hate Puna. You'd be surprised how "low" 1500 agl really is.
Don't forget, Pilots need Aloha too.......
AKpilot
We're all here, because we're not all there!
When someone has worked a swing shift followed by covering a night shift for a sick coworker they aren't feeling any "aloha" from the helicopter tour companies who prevent them from sleeping for 6 hours before they go back to work. Or a person who works from home who cannot conduct a business call because the helicopters are so loud, where is the "aloha" for them? When the tour companies and pilots show some aloha for the people of "sparsely populated" Puna by not making it difficult to enjoy their homes on the many days the cruise ships are in port, maybe we can feel some aloha for them.
The only one dragging your "brethren" through the mud here is the poster who keeps claiming people said things they didn't say. This thread started with a civil post announcing a "talk story" about a problem many of us experience, then someone started accusing people of saying all kinds of things like "dragging skids through treetops" and "flying in between trees" and "strafing their homes" and refused to own their dishonesty. All of those statements were made by a fan of the helicopters, not those who want the tour companies held accountable.
The helicopter tour companies and their pilots make a lot of money off destroying the peace and quiet of thousands of people who see exactly zero benefit from those companies existence, those people are over it and want some changes made. I am glad Onishi is asking for public input about the problem and wonder why it is him instead of either Puna councilor moving on this.
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Geezuz. Anyway...
"May they do it over the coast? Yes, perhaps. Over water or "sparsely populated areas" the FAA allows a pilot to operate 500 linear feet from any person, vessel, vehicle, or structure."
Reminds me of getting buzzed by a super low, super fast chopper while fishing along a remote and completely undeveloped stretch of coastline in Ka'u. I'm sure the pilot hadn't seen me there. In that instance I wasn't disturbed at all, but rather enjoyed the moment of exhilaration. Was kinda hoping they'd do the same on a return pass.
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AK Pilot and MarkP, you guys are full of it.
MarkP, "buyers remorse"? I've lived here all my adult life, and thats a long time. On Christmas day in '99, we were all enjoying a family brunch at the house, when a tour chopper headed straight for my living room, flying no more than 100' above, as our babies cried, terrified.
these days, it varies a lot. many DO stay above 1500', but many do not. The guys with the "black beauties" do not...ever. complete assholes!
often, while I'm doing my yard work, if they are too low, like 300', I'll give them something to see... an old man's okole!
have you ever been at the beaches on the waikoloa side, and noticed how high up they fly? I guess the tourists in the hotels deserve some peace and quiet, but as for the rest of us, well the wealthy mainlanders really need to see how we live, up close and personal
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Show up to the meeting, voice your opinion, further, put it in writing, and continue to work towards the law being adhered to. It's right there: THE LAW.
Sometimes, there are snide posts that really set the stage for more division. Not just this thread, it continues on each and every topic of discussion. " Geeze", is right. (PM2, get over yourself. lol...Your words, not mine.[  ])
Back to this topic, safety, and other conditions issued to sightseeing helicopters (ie. 1500' minimum, avoid residential areas if possible, etc.), the documents, as Ino and has stated are readily available.
For example, some tour helicopters have flown so close to the lava in the past, they were grounded due to "foreign object damage" (lava particles) in the engine(s). At $300+ per head, six (6) in a chopper, the maintenance was miniscule compared to the income. (*Note: Keep in mind, this was in the 80's; see disclaimer below)
As to rescue, Coast Guard, "Green Harvest", etc., all bets are off (obviously).
As an aside, realtors also have spent a pretty penny to fly close to get good footage. It's part of the "permit process". They merely call the tower, say they're going to be shooting that day, and voila, done. FAA was notified. WTH?
Thank you, State of Hawai'i, and FAA. Now, enforce your own rules.
Disclaimer: Worked for a helicopter company in the late 70's and into the 80's (Kaua'i, Maui, Moloka'i, HNL, and Ni'ihau tours). My brother works in the tower in HNL for the past 30 years, and is a pilot (and is ready to retire very soon). The information on this thread is valuable, yet jaded.
JMO.
P.S. If Mauna Loa erupts, Puna will have much less of a problem. Just saying. Be well, enjoy the evening, life is short.
ETA: For clarity/Add "damage" to "foreign object", to equate the "FOD" tag.
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AKPilot, with due respect, your statement about pilots being "safe" in their sorties of the day is inaccurate for Hawai'i tourism flight. Just so you know.
As an example, try flying the Na Pali Coast on Kaua'i with a pilot who has over 30,000 flying hours (jet fighter pilot, turned helicopter rescue pilot in war, turned oil pilot in Abu Dhabi, etc.). Flying through "the arch" was his forte. (*Note: Google "the Na Pali Coast Arch" for pics.)
When the Volcano tours were going, it was nine (9) choppers a day, 45-55 minutes per sortie, back to back, from sunrise to sunset (from Waikoloa and Hilo Airport). Weather dictated the flight route, and fuel was saved along the way (shortcuts; IFR vs. VFR, etc.).
The company I worked for hired only pilots with a 10,000 flight hour mininum, and the stories that came with these guys were astounding. During rescue of Hurricane Iwa, they were, again, heroes (pardon the O/T, of sorts).
Then, go do an auto rotation (practice test flight) with the same dude! OMG. [:0]
Just curious, how many flight hours do you have? Serious question; fixed wing only, or other aircraft? More specific, how many hours in Hawai'i?
JMO.
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Opihikao, I tell other pilots, privately, how many hours I have. It's not something I post publicly. Sorry. Not trying to be snarky, really, but it's kind of private.
If you want to get results from the FAA let me tell you how. Stories and calls do little, if you expect the FAA to violate a pilot or company, you are going to need evidence, and plenty of it. Get photos, the more the better, make sure you either accurately note the time the photo was taken, or ensure there is a time/date stamp on it and make sure it is an accurate time/date. They can use this to pair with a company's flight list, as well as ATC and Flight Plan records.
A good friend of mine was violated a few years ago when he buzzed some Kayakers in the SE Passage. 2 of the kayakers took pictures. They apparently (I didn't know the kayakers) called the FAA and sent them the pictures. The FAA contacted them and took some statements. The FAA was then able to figure how low he was via the pics, they used the statements from the kayakers along with the time/date stamps on the photos to find the pilot flying that plane, at that time, during that day. They paired it with his flight plan, confirmed it via ATC recordings, and slapped him with a fine and violation. Both he and his First Officer (co-pilot) were violated. The company fired the Captain. He later found work elsewhere, but he will never get on with a Major, Airline, thanks to that violation. THAT is what pilots want to avoid. Nail a few of them with that, and I assure you, if they are buzzing anyone.....it will stop.
I have routinely been dealing with the FAA since I got my Commercial license back in 2003. I can tell you the gears do turn, but they turn real slow.
AKpilot
We're all here, because we're not all there!
We're all here, because we're not all there!
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Thank you, State of Hawai'i, and FAA. Now, enforce your own rules.
Hawaii has a decades-old proud local tradition of "spot enforcement"... helicopters no different.
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Aloha AKPilot ( I have always enjoyed your posts) and MarkP, Have you read the Hawaii Island Air Tour Common Operating Procedure Manual?
http://tinyurl.com/mebxaz3
I would encourage you to read it! I would really like to hear your opinion of what you think the map means-Thank you and I do now have a copy of the manual.
There are rules of the road and there are rules of the sky. If you look on page 13 under Hawaii Island you will see a map. Where I live in Mountain View is clearly under a flight restriction area of 1500' AGL not ASL, highlighted in pink. Any aircraft that flies in this airspace is tracked by Dept. of Defense DOD radar and heights and times can be determined. I know from my extensive experience as a weather spotter that most if not all of the helicopters are flying way too low. Even the Flight inspectors have told me that the helicopters only have to be at 500' AGL. Maybe because there are no flight inspectors on this island they are unaware of their own rules. The FAA says I must have ID numbers, which by the way are on put on the sides of the aircraft usually dark color on dark color. What happened to the old ID way of dark letters on the white underside of the helicopter for easier identification?
I couldn't sleep last night thinking of all the things that are not quite right here with the helicopters. For 7 years I have awaken to helicopter noise at 7-8 am, I have had difficulties talking on the phone at times. Due to air traffic separation I have had to deal with 1 helicopter leaving my airspace and another one's on it's way leading to an almost constant noise.
I have had a roof panel torn off a shed. I can't sleep from 7-4 pm from the constant noise. I have had my metal roof panels slammed up and down from rotor wash so many times that I'm surprised they're still there. At times I have feared for my life and those of my pets, even so far as to having to take shelter in our low level garage. Can all these things happen from a helicopter flying 1500' over my house?
I live in an elevated house and have a commanding view of the surrounding area. From my deck I can actually see helicopters from a long way off. At times I have actually thought they were going to crash into my house. When I bought this house the helicopter noise was not disclosed. I have put up with it long enough! Please FAA and helicopter pilots follow the rules.
Tonight's meeting will be my last attempt to mediate the situation to effect change. I hope that Onishi can make a difference. No change in the current situation from the FAA or the helicopter pilots will lead me to pursue further action. Just like I can't drive down the middle of the road, helicopters can't fly lower than 1500' AGL over my house. Even the common weather exemption is not allowed over my area.
I know what Due Process is under the law and I believe I that have been denied this by the FAA by their cumbersome reporting requirements to make compliant. Unfortunately for them I know where I can be granted Due Process.
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"Just curious, how many flight hours do you have? Serious question; fixed wing only, or other aircraft? More specific, how many hours in Hawai'i?
JMO."
lol
Interesting concept. Next we will be challenging a practicing surgeon on the authority of once having worked as a receptionist in a hospital. Or maybe question BAR exam scores, having a relative who works as a stenographer.
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All flights are recorded with a time stamp and the elevation is recorded. Doesn't matter who I am or what I think. The situation is well documented.
When I posted in response to someone asking "How many overflights at your house? How do make the observations? Who do you think you are?" Apparently they have deleted their post leaving my remarks with no context.
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