TMT Work to Resume Says Ige!

[kalakoa]

This is political, i.e., stupid.

The protestors already got handed a silver platter, but it just wouldn't look right without the hand-carved marble pillar (accented with gold inlay).

[Aaron S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakine
It's interesting how they would do that just days before the Supremes make their decision regarding the DLNR/UH debacle. Another example of incompetence by those at the helm methinks. They must be really worried.

---

You're the second person that believes the Hawaii Supreme Court will be issuing an opinion on the legality of the TMT's CDUP soon. However, there is three points that question this assertion. Firstly, the Hawaii Supreme Court heard oral arguments in the Kilakila `o Haleakalâ appeal in April 2015. They haven't issued an opinion on that case yet. Secondly, there is no set time frame as to when the court will issue an opinion in either case. Lastly, I spoke to one of the plaintiffs in the TMT case. This person was unaware of any imminent decision.

[leilanidude]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dakine

PW Word of the Day

Racist:
    noun. A person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
    adjective. Having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.

According to PM2 I am a racist because I believe that a group of people that have been harmed and had their rights violated should have those rights reinstated. To me that's silly. But I wonder, if PM2 were to feel as if his (or hers) rights were taken away would my believing that they should be reinstated still be racist?

---

What year are you desiring that those "rights" be restored to?
The rights that the typical Hawaiian had in 1500? 1600? 1800? 1900?

[flyingsurfer]

The Hawaiian Kingdom movement does not represent most of the Hawaiian people. When I went to Leeward Community College. One student in one of my classes was full Hawaiian.From Kauai. He said they were still upset over King Kamehameha taking over there island. Under the movement do the islands get to decide if the want to be apart of the Kingdom?
And what about the majority of the Hawaiian people do they have a say?

[TomK]

Here we go again.

"Totally twisted Punatic view. It might be productive but at what cost?"

Compared to other major international telescopes, UKIRT is exceedingly inexpensive. The cost per science paper is lower than any other telescope by a very large margin yet the impact score is amongst the highest in the world.

"It was built and funded by the United Kingdom. They abandoned it. UHH took over stewardship, getting some external customers in Lockheed and University of Arizona. It's over 30 years old. It means a lot of archaic stuff needing upgrades. It took a lot of work on UHH to get these customers. If they had huge line of patrons, they wouldn't be decommissioning it."

UKIRT went through a major upgrade project in the 90s. New and unique instrumentation was built and installed in the last decade. UHH had absolutely nothing to do with finding new partners to operate UKIRT, that was done by the UK's STFC.

"IR astronomy is all about the sensor and the processing instrumentation, as well as the precision of mechanical orientation. Even the gimbal systems today are more precise and faster."

UKIRT doesn't use gimbals. IR astronomy is also about designing a telescope with low emisivity, which UKIRT has. That requires a lot of design features unique to IR telescopes. And as far precision is concerned, UKIRT's pointing accuracy is an order of magnitude better than, e.g., the Kecks.

"The cost to overhaul and upgrade an old observatory are...astronomical. During all this hoopla, people seem to have missed the astronomers that acknowledge observatories go obsolete. That is all that is happening, no conspiracies or incompetency transfer projections needed. "

Only problem there is UKIRT is not obsolete. It out-performs most other observatories. The decision to decommission UKIRT is a political decision and is not based on science.

"In a way, IR telescopes don't have the same limitations as optical and they are better space based."

They actually have more severe limitations than optical telescopes, which is why, e.g., the JWST is taking so long to build at a cost of billions of dollars.

"http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/technology/imag...enshot.jpg"

I have absolutely no idea why you posted this link. It's a cross-section of an optical/infrared spectrometer. What on earth does it have to do with anything?

[TomK]

From a rather distinguished astronomer using UKIRT tonight:

"We're doing 10 micron spectroscopy, and it works! Where else can you do that?"

Perhaps Pahoated can weigh in using all his expertise on infrared telescopes and provide an answer?

Please be specific. Telescope plus instrument.

[dmbwest]

Knew that one would wind you up Tom.... Apologies for stress.

It's more apparent each and every day that he is what he posts.

aloha,
pog

[TomK]

Thanks, Pog. I assume you mean poppycock. Bet you didn't think that'd be the word I'd use!

[AKpilot]

Pahoted, I'll assume you are an astronomer with a statement like that. You asked for my credentials, let us hear yours. I comment on matters Aviation because I am an Airline Transport Pilot, rated in everything form bush planes to jets, 13 years flying experience. Tom talks Astronomy because he works at UKIRT. I am not trying to be snarky, it just irks me when folks voice strong opinions on something they are clearly not knowledgeable in. I am sure Tom feels the same.

AKpilot

quote:

---

Originally posted by pahoated

quote:

---

Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
UKIRT is still the 2nd most productive telescope in the world, Mauna Kea's mana has been destroyed forever... so let's tear down the telescope anyway. Or how the State of Hawaii provides a lose-lose, nothing for everyone solution.

---

Totally twisted Punatic view. It might be productive but at what cost?

It was built and funded by the United Kingdom. They abandoned it. UHH took over stewardship, getting some external customers in Lockheed and University of Arizona. It's over 30 years old. It means a lot of archaic stuff needing upgrades. It took a lot of work on UHH to get these customers. If they had huge line of patrons, they wouldn't be decommissioning it.

IR astronomy is all about the sensor and the processing instrumentation, as well as the precision of mechanical orientation. Even the gimbal systems today are more precise and faster. The cost to overhaul and upgrade an old observatory are...astronomical. During all this hoopla, people seem to have missed the astronomers that acknowledge observatories go obsolete. That is all that is happening, no conspiracies or incompetency transfer projections needed. In a way, IR telescopes don't have the same limitations as optical and they are better space based.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/wp-con...1ukirt.jpg
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/technology/imag...enshot.jpg

"Aloha also means goodbye. Aloha!"

---

We're all here, because we're not all there!

[Bullwinkle]

Just reading about the new james web infrared telescope scheduled to join hubble in orbit.

Interesting read .....it will be positioned beyond the orbit of the moon to keep it cool - rather than the few hundred miles for hubble - which recently passed the 25 years in orbit milestone.

http://www.jwst.nasa.gov/

edit typo