Forced vaccinations

[Justin]

So wouldn't a potential answer be to not "force" vaccinations on anyone, but let people know that - going forward - parents would be criminally responsible for any diseases their children gave to others? In other words, if you don't vaccinate your kid for measles, and your kid gives the neighbor's kid (who is too young for vaccinations) measles and that kid dies, then you'd be guilty of involuntary manslaughter?

That seems to balance the rights of those that don't want to be forcibly vaccinated with those who don't want un-vaccinated people causing public health issues. I think it would definitely make people think twice (or three times) about avoiding vaccinations.

Personally, I don't see it as too different from accidentally shooting someone or accidentally hitting someone in a car while drunk - it's a known, dangerous, item, and for something like that, you have to exercise extra vigilance.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

let people know that - going forward - parents would be criminally responsible

It's an interesting concept.
First, you would need to guide a law through the legislature to make the non-immunized accountable, although it's barely possible to submit any law concerning vaccines that are not dropped by state legislators within a few days.

Then, hypothetically speaking, if it were to get through the Hawaii Legislature, doctors or schools would present anti-vaxxer parents with scientific studies to explain to them why the law would hold them responsible for spreading an epidemic. A law based on logic and reason that will affect people who oppose vaccinations based on testimony such as:

"Not in one single generation in the history of mankind has it been appropriate or truly for the greater good for the government to control our bodies. Forced compliance is the foodstuffs of fascists and nazis, and the fuel of for-profit corporations. Moreover, these measures are clearly for the benefit of the for-profit, patented pharmaceutical industry. Imposing patented products on the public would create a government sponsored industry monopoly."

or asking the legislature to:
"Please find an alternative method of protecting civilians from epidemics, etc"

I don't deny the soundness of your logic as a way to provide a solution to the topic, but think it might create an epidemic of it's own, anti-vaxxer mass hysteria!


"How we spend our days is, of course, how we spend our lives." -Annie Dillard

[Justin]

I agree it would be difficult to implement, and the hardest part would be proving causation (i.e., did the deceased get the disease from person A or person B), but at a 30,000 foot level I don't see it as much different than how accidental vehicular homicide (someone hops in front of your car and you aren't doing anything wrong) is treated differently from DUI homicide (someone hops in front of your car and you're drunk). Basically, the point is, you're free to live your life as you see fit, but those conscious choices come with risks attached.

[ironyak]

HOTPE - looks like someone spent some time reading the SB2393 testimony huh? There are some real gems in there (along with a few well stated concerns)

Justin - But person A could sue person B, who then sues person C, etc, etc, each case requiring definitive medical proof of transmission, thereby tying up domestic and international courts in an attempt to identify patient zero and claim the multibillion dollar settlement. So yeah, difficult to implement

Perhaps providing incentives for immunizations (free vaccinations, tax breaks, etc) like Australia does might be more successful?

[Rob Tucker]

At the present it appears that the incentive is that children who are vaccinated receive a free public education. Good incentive.

[Guest]

Lets see Rob. A public education from the great state of Maryland that prepares you for college would be a good incentive. Yet a free public education from Pahoa Hawaii, well not so sure?.

[bystander]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kalakoa

Many said it would be a violation of civil or human rights.

Exposing the general public to disease violates nobody's rights?

---

The thing is the bill in question is not about mandatory vaccinations and doesn't even violate any rights in the way most opposing it think. Read what I posted from the beginning. It's all just a scare tactic used to get people to oppose the bill. I can see here that most would be happy if in fact the bill was about mandatory vaccinations.

[TomK]

"[...]Read what I posted from the beginning. It's all just a scare tactic used to get people to oppose the bill. I can see here that most would be happy if in fact the bill was about mandatory vaccinations."

This is nothing new. It seems to be a standard tactic here. Throw some crap around and eventually some of it will stick. Even the title of this thread is an example.

[ironyak]

Originally posted by Rob Tucker
At the present it appears that the incentive is that children who are vaccinated receive a free public education. Good incentive.

And yet, the US lags behind hundreds of other countries in basic vaccination rates. Strange...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2...-countries

The point was that choices with sufficient incentives appear to be more successful in countries like the US than mandates or litigation strategies. (easier to implement and less "nazi-ish" apparently

It will be interesting to see how SB2394 fares, as it does mandate seasonal flu shots for health care workers. From the testimony, it appears to have support from many health care organizations, but not so much from individuals. Who to listen to...
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?year=2016&billtype=SB&billnumber=2394

[MBB]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread again but a January 2016 American College of Pediatricians post on their website raises concerns that the vaccination Gardasil ( given to teenage children to prevent human papilloma virus, certain strains thought to cause cervical cancer) is implicated in causing Premature ovarian failure AKA premature menopause.

Of special note is that it says in this posting that most doctors don't know this correlation and hence incidence may be much higher than recorded.

Thought this is important enough information to resurrect recent post.

http://www.acpeds.org