Water Storage Tanks

[pam jones]

Allen, Thats great and fine if you have 10 grand to spend on a water catchment system! I do know most people go w/ a Dough Boy pool which can last 20ish years for a lot less. We have a friend on 30thHPP whose pool blew over the summer and it moved a full garden tub over 20'and would have caused substantial damage had it blown the other way as it was right by his house (keep that in mind when placing a cheap water catchment like a swimming pool). Since we won't be spending 10grand on a water system but will spend a lot on a water filtration (ultri-violet lights and I guess regular carbon filters), is that enough to keep the bad effects of vog pollution out of our water? It would be so nice to not have to lug water from the water stations. Pam 2

[David M]

I had Peter from Pacific Gunite out to discuss building a catchement system. Our 1st hope was to do an underground tank between main house and garage, covered by lanai. We figured it would hold approx 15K gallons. His quick guesstimate was between 30 and 40 thousand dollars - likely the higher side of the 30's as it would be a custom design. Definitely not in our budget, so we discussed building one of his regular 15K gallon models - that would be about $15,000 if we wanted the cover and that didn't include the cost of providing the area already prepped for the tank construction. Also not in our budget and no way to make it a part of our house design.
Tomorrow I'm meeting with Kevin of Chem-tainer (Shipman Park) to discuss building a system based on his 4K gallon tanks, looking to gang them together. These are the high grade plastic, one piece tanks. We currently use a 3K gallon version at the small house and it is a great closed system.
I figure with the gang design I can build capacity by adding tanks. If there is a problem in the future, and so far I understand that just about every system will have a problem someday, the problem will be limited to a single tank and not take down the whole system. This will be a closed system, feed through a filter system, and probably include a fire hydrant type connector for insurance. I will locate it 75-100 ft away on backside of the house and probably plant something to screen its visibility eventually. It is not recommended to bury these tanks, although I have one neighbor who did, but I did recess our 3K tank about 3 ft with Chem-tainer's approval.

I'm curious that if I were to pour a thin (3-6 inches) layer of concrete in the bottom, could I achieve the neutralizing effect. Any thoughts from anyone?

David

Ninole Resident

[pam jones]

Sounds good Dave and I can't wait to hear how your meeting goes and what you learn. We drove out to shipman the other day and saw some of those from the road. All I know about them is that they are a little pricey..but then again what ISN'T here? I would be curious to know the life span on those as they are plastic and how well they fare in earthquakes. The one we had a few months ago (the one EVERYbody felt!) moved our catchment a good 3 or 4 inches!! It is of course a doughboy, cross your fingers it never blows as it is right by our bedroom.Pam2

[JerryCarr]

For all you folks out there with Doughboys, y'all may be pleased to know that Mike at Paradise Pools in HPP repairs them. Ours had several sections of corroded ring supports and a bad liner. Looked like it would blow any minute. They showed up exactly on time, drained it, repaired the corroded sections, replaced the liner, cleaned up after themselves, and put 4500 gallons of water back in it for $700. This was six months ago and it has been fine since. Earlier another guy came out from Shipman Ind. Park and told us it could not be repaired and that he wanted $2500 to put in a new doughboy. Glad I called Mike.

[allensylves]

Check carefully on who you buy your catchment tank from. Try to find out if you can talk to someone who has had one of their tanks for several years to see how it lasts. Mike at Paradise Pools replaced our galvanized tank from another vendor in 2000 because it had rusted out in less than 6 years. He just did a little maintenance on that tank a few months ago because the renters had lost the overflow, but the tank is still fine.

He and his wife also rent some cottages on 19th off of Makuu - Paradise Rentals - that are nice, quiet, economical and much more convenient for Puna, especially HPP, than a hotel in Hilo.

Allen
Baton Rouge, LA & HPP

[David M]

Pam
Chem-tainer http://www.chemtainerofhawaii.com/produc...aspx?cid=9
Meeting went rather well and I bought 4 tanks (16k gallons). It wouldn't be fair to post price I paid as it was significantly discounted due to volume. When I purchased my 3K gallon tank, I actually negotiated for 2 - 1 for my neighbor, so this would make 7 tanks I've purchased since Aug, so I got a very good discount. Still pricey compared to some alternatives and I did exceed my budget a bit, but so far, I've heard no horror stories from any user. I suspect the warranty will be as good as the cement tank. No liners to replace, nothing to rust, no cover to wearout - basically, very minimal maintenance. I will recess these 3 or 4 feet into the ground - to be determined when there is a drier hour or so soon. The area will be 20' X 20', the catchment tank on my house plans called for a 21' ring, so not that different areawise. I will plumb the tanks so that 3 inch catchment line will feed into one tank, then basically overflow into the others. The last overflow will be the surplus drained away from tanks. Each tank will be fitted with 1 1/2 inch supply line with a foot valve and an isolation valve. With the valve, I can choose to draw from the tanks equally or individually. The 1 1/2 inch will feed into my pump and filter system (not yet purchased). I may or maynot install a 3 inch standpipe and valve as a hydrant (depends on final site survey). We will be having a pool, so that water will be available if necessary.

I didn't ask about placing concrete in bottom. I've since had another thought - instead of pouring concrete into bottom of tanks, what if I just placed a few concrete blocks in each?

Anyway, tanks are tentatively scheduled for delivery in mid March.

David

Ninole Resident

[allensylves]

David M,
I would definitely go with concrete blocks rather than poured concrete for several reasons:
1) more surface area on the blocks to expose the alkaline cement.
2) easier to do and much easier to remove if you change your mind.
3) easier to remove and treat with Clorox if needed.The aquaponics group I am on always stresses maximizing surface area in aquatic situations.

Allen
Baton Rouge, LA & HPP

[David M]

Allen

Do you think the addition of the concrete block would really affect the taste (ph factor) of the water? If so, how many, say normal 8 in (8x8x16 I think) blocks should I place in each 4K gallon tank?
You did a good listing of the reasons I'm thinking this method. although I didn't think of the Clorox treatment. I was also not looking forward to mixing that much concrete - easier to buy the blocks.
I'm seriously considering using the food grade hydrogen peroxide instead of chlorine.

David

Ninole Resident

Edited by - David M on 03/02/2006 17:51:27

[allensylves]

David M,
Now you get the scientist's answer when he is out of his specialty. I do not know how many blocks to use! Of course, I suggest you try an experiment, since you have several tanks. I would put several blocks (12 or more?) in one tank and none in another (the upstream tank, since the filling is in series) and check the pH in each tank a few times after the tanks have been full (or have a reasonable amount of water) a few days. Or, you could just isolate the tank with the blocks (so no new water is flushing through it) and measure any pH change over several days. A swimming pool supply place would be the first place I would look for pH test strips. It does not need to be highly accurate, since if the blocks do not make a significant change it is not worth the trouble. Ideally the tanks would be isolated after they are full and while your experiment is going on, but that is probably too much trouble.
I would also put the blocks on end so they stick up in the water as much as possible and the water can circulate through the openings.
Of course this whole process may be too much trouble to bother with, particularly if the water is not very acid.
It would be interesting to hear the results, though.
A simpler first step would be to check with the lady that has put out the publication on catchment systems in Hawaii - sorry I cannot remember her name. See what she says about effects of concrete on acid catchment water, etc.


Allen
Baton Rouge, LA & HPP

Edited by - allensylves on 03/02/2006 22:31:10

Edited by - allensylves on 03/02/2006 22:43:24

[mella l]

You know a I'm a kinda liken this idea, but I'm a wondering if the effect of the concrete blocks will wear out after a year or two? Would the effect be diluted and the blocks have to be replaced. And having never seen one of these tanks I'm wondering how you would fish them out.

mella l