Native Hawaiians in support of TMT

[kalakoa]

http://energy.hawaii.gov/renewable-energ...ui-gridtie

Cost $628M, savings (over 30 years) "up to" $423M + additional $128M indirect economic benefit. I assume the other $77M will be funded with some kind of "free money" from the public.

I further assume this can never be built, for the same reasons TMT will "never" be built.

[Guest]

HOTPE, no need to make a movie out of it,lol.
I was only asking questions about TMT future projected electricity cost or use because smaller telescopes like the Keck's telescope atop Mauna Kea already pay 1 million a year, about"90,000 a month" to helco for power.

[kalakoa]

questions about TMT future projected electricity cost or use

I'm obviously missing the point, then: what difference does TMT's power use make?

Would it be "less desecration" if TMT was fully solar-powered with no possibility of electricity from PGV?

smaller telescopes like the Keck's telescope atop Mauna Kea already pay 1 million a year

Again: who cares how much the telescopes pay HELCO? They can afford the cost, and it creates local jobs.

[leilanidude]

Yes, running an electrical cable through highly conductive salt water. What could possibly go wrong?
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Not much. It is done all over the world. Has been for decades. The only difference here is the depth.

[Guest]

Kalakoa, good evening.


It just doesnt feel right to be Using Pele to help desecrate the summit of Mauna Kea, or to continue oppressing the many native people congregating here in Puna. The selling of Mauna Kea's summit for 1.4 billion to many foreign government's like china, india, and canada for star gazing should be a crime. If you were to put an american price tag on the sale of Mauna Kea's summit it should be in the trillions. Jmo

Places like Mauna Kea's summit are rare and unique environments on this planet, Mauna Kea's summit region should be preserved for many future generations to come. Jmo.

[PaulW]

It always comes back to the shakedown.

[opihikao]

quote:

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Originally posted by PaulW

It always comes back to the shakedown.

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Aloha ahiahi, Mr. Gypsy, and Mr PaulW.

It could be called "the shakedown", or it could be called "the Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom", both of which equate to the proverbial "reparation". US Dollars, is what this country, USA, speaks in, for the most part. (Bet Clinton wishes he didn't sign that apology, never mind the historic events that led to the overthrow.)

Nevertheless, we are here today; some support TMT, some support with conditions/concerns/reservations ("kanalua", as it were), some are "onipa'a" against.

Mahalo to all for a respectful discussion. Even we at PW, have evolved into a somewhat decent conversation. Finding that "balance" may not be so difficult after all.

Now, will someone please tell me WTH is OHA's position on all of this? Please and thank you. Therein lies yet another disappointing representation of our people during this particular TMT process. OMG.

May Akua bless, and guide us all.

P.S. gypsy, Tutu Pele cannot/will not be "used", just FYI. []

JMO.

[TomK]

"The one thing to note is that when HELCO built the line up to the summit of Mauna Kea (the first scopes up there ran on generators) they agreed to make it the number one priority of all the users on the grid. That means in times of shortages the telescopes on the summit get first dibs on the power verses all the other users on the island."

That might have been the case decades ago, it certainly hasn't been the case for many years and is not true these days. Another piece of misinformation to check off.

[TomK]

"It just doesnt feel right to be Using Pele to help desecrate the summit of Mauna Kea, or to continue oppressing the many native people congregating here in Puna."

Why not simply ask Poli'ahu?

[Eric1600]

In regards to the power consumption of the TMT, there are literately books written on this already. Specifically the EIS vol. 3 because a transformer is being added to the sub-station. Just search that EIS for "HELCO" and you'll see what the plan is including many photos of the cultural sites around the area.

The biggest power draw will probably be for cooling. Everyone on here seems to want a Costco in Puna, but will they protest them using air-conditioning and lighting?

The full TMT laser systems use less than 150 watts. The mirror actuators are 0.2 watts each. The adaptive secondary mirror takes a maximum of 4,000 watts. A simple 3 minute search & skim of the proposal shows these numbers are quite small. http://ec2-52-8-144-112.us-west-1.comput...Public.pdf

Worrying about electricity use, while important, is a red herring.