Project to collect feedback about Mauna Kea..

[kalakoa]

I'm sure someone can explain how "aerial shooting from helicopters" isn't desecration:

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news...-mauna-kea

[PaulW]

The Native Hawaiians themselves had no problem with turning part of the mountain into a quarry:
https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/asian_amer...Quarry.htm
It was a logical and sensible thing to do. Obviously rocks weren't all that sacred to them, only to mainlanders that come here and try to be more Hawaiian than the Hawaiians.

[PaulW]

"the sheep is the pest, a haole if you will"
Shows his true colors yet again.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

without DLNR's management would be totally destroyed by the sheep.

So in this particular case, the state and the DLNR are to be trusted with making the right decision, no questions asked?

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[kalakoa]

of course you'll understand when I point out your insensitivity and disrespect

The entire island is "critical habitat".

Tutu Pele doesn't respect the arbitrary TMK boundaries, "ownership" and land-use restrictions imposed by our "western-style democratic republic". If Mauna Kea is so "sacred" that it requires an inter-agency feral ungulate management program, then Mauna Kea is clearly too "sacred" to ever build telescopes.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

dakine, the astronomy program has been in place for decades. Plenty of questions have been asked, in fact the study has already taken place, including applications, environmental impact statements, meetings for concerned citizens, asking questions, many many questions. All's to the good. But hey are you suggesting they should be asked again? Is there any sense to that?

[TomK]

Amazing how day after day it's becoming clearer that the protestors want rules and laws for others but think they shouldn't have them apply to themselves.

Incidentally, when it comes to decommissioning, all the observatories hired reputable companies and submitted their plans and costs as part of the 2010 Mauna Kea Comprehensive Management Plan. The lease agreements with all observatories are binding and as most are funded by government agencies there's zero chance of the agreements being ignored. In a couple of cases, the decommissioning money has already been provided. As part of the deal to hand over ownership of the JCMT and UKIRT to UH, the money required to decommission both was handed over.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Dakine,
I hope you will also reply to my comment about the TMT excavating for the foundation for their building, which you said was a wound that can't be repaired, as the rock could not be returned as the original lava flow it once was.

Shouldn't the protesters also have known about this important aspect of the mountain?In which case, how could they wound Mauna Kea by removing boulders from their position on the original lava flow? Shouldn't they have known better? With their more subtle world view, their leaders could have stopped the removal of rocks and boulders which you referred to as "original desecration" but they didn't. Why not?

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Really HOTPE, please consider that there are true differences between your world view, your thought processes, and others.

Perhaps if you reread my post, you'll see I'm attempting to understand what the unified world view is in this particular situation. I'm not saying, "I'm a westerner, I'm right" and everyone else is wrong. I'd like to understand if westerners and protectors have a similar or a different view of disturbing the lava formations on Mauna Kea, which you described as:

...the wound ...can't be repaired.
original desecration
the rock... as the lava flow it originally was

I think the vision and actions of the protestors and TMT designers are quite comparable in fact. Both want to move portions of the mountain in order to attain their goals, one to build a telescope, one group to stop construction. But they both by your description "wound, desecrate" and change the lava flow. So if the protestors approve of this by their own actions, are both groups desecrating the mountain, or are neither?

What I'm trying to understand is, do your comments apply to both the TMT and the protestors? The article you referenced from punafish would imply that it does, as the article discusses when two cultures look a single occurrence in the world, but draw two different views of the event. I would like to discover how a similar event (moving lava formations) can have two different interpretations. Isn't that the exact opposite of what is stated in the article? Because if protestors have as you say a "more subtle world view" and are against digging a foundation for the TMT, wouldn't they also defend the sanctity of all other natural formations on Mauna Kea rather than disturb and destroy them?

It's quite a conundrum.

“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Maybe the rocks gave their permission

Wasn't there a Hawaiian Blessing Ceremony before construction began at the TMT site?

“The groundbreaking and blessing ceremony for the Thirty Meter Telescope (TMT), hindered by a small group of protesters for a brief time, took place,” officials at Caltech, which is a partner in the project, said in a statement.
http://www.latimes.com/science/scienceno...story.html



“There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them.”
-Joseph Brodsky