No Solar For You

[Lodestone]

Back in February, I contracted with a local small Puna company (that was recommended by this forum, but that I do not wish to name at this time) to install a 21-panel grid-tie system for $21,000. I paid a $2000 deposit. After numerous delays (they forgot about me; they forgot to file the permit, etc.) his crew (which was excellent, I should add) completed installation on June 5. Next step: HELCO inspection, approval, and flip the switch. But, the next step never comes. I email, I call. No response. I chatted with a HELCO rep; was advised that sometimes this step take months.

Last week, the contractor calls to inform me that HELCO is no longer accepting applications for grid-tie systems and tries to sell me on a battery backup system for an additional $18,000. This goes very poorly for him, as I offer instead to have him refund my deposit and come and get his panels. I called HELCO the next day and found out that indeed, Hawaii Island had reached its 5MW "ceiling" for grid-tie systems back on August 23. Furthermore, they had no record of any application of any kind for my property.

Ensuing conversations with the contractor reveal that the fault lies with his "paperwork guy". He tries to sell me a cheaper battery-backup system for an additional $13,000. That goes very poorly for him.

Next day, I talked to HELCO about the possibility of applying for a "Customer Self-Supply" system, which would not give me any credit for electricity I supplied to the grid, but would at least allow me turn on my system and get free daytime electricity. Not an option, per their policy (the allure of free electricity did not appeal to them). I asked if their Customer Grid Supply program might be revived in the future, and they admitted that was a strong possibility, and that I should get my application in ASAP as it would be first come, first served. I instructed the contractor to initiate this.

To his credit, the contractor has offered to remove the system and refund my deposit. It may well come to that, but it seems a terrible waste and I really don't want to amble down this road again. I'm not inclined to do an off-grid system unless batteries get cheaper and last longer. Any thoughts on where I should go from here, and whether HELCO is likely to accept more grid-tie systems next year, or was just interested in getting me off the phone?

As always when discussing solar energy, please refrain from heated tangents regarding climate change, fracking, Congress, Big Oil, hippies, geothermal, Islamic terrorism, and space-based solar. Thanks in advance.

[Kapoho Joe]

Aside from impacting profit, what is the reason Helco gives for instituting a cap on solar?

[Seeb]

Grid stability , which is a legitimate concern- if you have people generating power when and where you don't need it and it's not constant it raises hell with every other part of the system

[Punatic007]

I've been off grid for decades in Puna and wouldn't have it any other way, but don't have a mega system either. My battery bank was a little over $3000 and runs a normal home with mostly energy saving appliances. This batch of Trojans has lasted over 10 yrs and still holding a full charge.

An option would be to take some of the panels down and have a more moderate sized off-grid system.

[Malapuaao]

"I'm not inclined to do an off-grid system unless batteries get cheaper and last longer"

I can totally relate. On the one hand, HELCO goes down or brown outs frequently and it's expensive.

OTOH you don't need to pay nearly that much for a large array of local supplied lead acid. (New battery technologies, as we've seen lately, are still to scary and expensive).

To me, the biggest problem is the periodic maintenance but when you consider it all, 24x7x365 uptime and no fees off grid (in Hawaii for sure) is the way to go for residential purposes.

If you do go off grid use LED lighting and get appliances with the lowest annual cost rating (the yellow sticker energy rating on a UHD Samsung 50" tv is only $9/yr, but the cheaper TV's waste more energy) especially for the fridge. Oh, and either disconnect the heater element or restricted to using a dishwasher to noon on sunny days (avoid high amp appliances).

Going off grid definitely works well if enough panels, sufficient battery array and making smart choices about appliances and usage.





aloha

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

The markup for grid tie-in systems was exceptionally high, because of the tax rebates offered. The installers understood this, and priced their systems accordingly.

Perhaps you could make a quick internet search for the type of panel you have and their cost, and estimate what the installation company's actual labor expenses were. If the price is low enough to make it possible for you to keep the system, make them an offer. Perhaps they'd be willing to work out a special price for batteries as well.

Remember, they'll lose money if they give you a 100% refund, and have to remove (used) panels as well, so they may be quite willing to negotiate a price near actual cost. Breaking even is a better option for them at this point than losing money.

“We’ve got to be as clear-headed about human beings as possible, because we are still each other’s only hope,” James Baldwin to Margaret Mead in the book A Rap On Race

[pahoated]

Customer Self Supply (CSS) is on the Hawaiian Electric site, so if anybody is telling you otherwise at HELCO, it is bull. It does not require battery storage, although this would be easy with a rack of 4 marine batteries outside. If you open your main breaker and have your solar panel system acting as as a solar power generator, then it is just the same as having a gas engine generator. You only need a breaker from your solar power to disconnect it when the utility power is used. There are gas engine generators all over, and this is what they are doing, although the reason is the utility power has gone out. You have the right to open your main breaker, in fact, they make a big deal out of how that is your property.

https://www.hawaiianelectric.com/clean-e...y-programs

*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*

[Lodestone]

Hi Ted

To clarify, HELCO's position was that since my system had no batteries, excess power would flood the grid, so no go. I have to keep my excess power off grid and in batteries to do CSS. So your modifications might work. Good ideas, thanks!

[Lodestone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

The markup for grid tie-in systems was exceptionally high, because of the tax rebates offered. The installers understood this, and priced their systems accordingly.

Perhaps you could make a quick internet search for the type of panel you have and their cost, and estimate what the installation company's actual labor expenses were. If the price is low enough to make it possible for you to keep the system, make them an offer. Perhaps they'd be willing to work out a special price for batteries as well.

Remember, they'll lose money if they give you a 100% refund, and have to remove (used) panels as well, so they may be quite willing to negotiate a price near actual cost. Breaking even is a better option for them at this point than losing money.

---

HOTPE: I was thinking the same thing. But so far, he seems oblivious to the notion that they are going to take a loss here, one way or the other. But, the trend is encouraging and I can be very patient.

[Lodestone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Malapuaao

If you do go off grid use LED lighting and get appliances with the lowest annual cost rating (the yellow sticker energy rating on a UHD Samsung 50" tv is only $9/yr, but the cheaper TV's waste more energy) especially for the fridge. Oh, and either disconnect the heater element or restricted to using a dishwasher to noon on sunny days (avoid high amp appliances).

Going off grid definitely works well if enough panels, sufficient battery array and making smart choices about appliances and usage.

---

My hot tub has LEDs... but that's probably not what you had in mind. I'm not sure we're "smart choices" people.[]
In all seriousness, I fully intend to put the hot tub on a timer; daytime use only. Otherwise, we're fairly energy efficient, except that the rest of the family (there are five of us) suffers from an inability to turn off lights and fans when not in use. And, since I do the laundry, I can enforce a ban on nighttime dryer use.