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No Solar For You
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09-12-2016, 05:02 AM
quote: If only the PUC had some teeth in this state.
09-12-2016, 05:16 AM
I am not an electrician, but what if HELCO retrofitted transformer sub stations on the existing grid either partially or completely with battery bank(s)? Seems extra current from solar would charge the battery banks and re send the current to another user, and HELCO would only have to supplement from a power generation plant to make up the difference to keep the batteries charged up.
Oh, wait, the oil companies, executives, board members et al wouldn't make any money. So I guess maybe I am an electrician, but not a politician, or maybe neither! Community begins with Aloha
09-12-2016, 05:27 AM
At least one place in California has been storing "power" for a long time. During low-demand hours, they pump water into a high reservoir. During high-demand hours, the water is released to flow through turbines and generate electricity.
There has to be a LOTTA loss in that system, but I like that it's a different way to look at storage. It would be cool if you could adapt it for residential use; solar power pumping the water during the day. You'd even get a bonus when it rained. You could even tie it into catchment, and use the high reservoir to gravity feed water into the house. High-demand hours vary from place to place; in areas with industry, peak hours are during the day (like noon to 6pm). On Hawaii Island, which has little industry, peak hours are in the evening, when people get home from work. quote: ><(((*< ... ><(("< ... ><('< ... >o>
09-12-2016, 07:22 AM
According to those in the immediate area, Helco has not been using PGV as much lately. Due to lack of demand from Helco, PGV has been in 'bypass mode' more than usual.
So do we have more power than we need right now? Is PGV too expensive for Helco? What gives?
09-12-2016, 09:45 AM
quote: Good point. That $87 figure on the yellow tag is based on mainland electricity prices. That's why we are powering it with solar panels instead of HELCO. In our case, HELCO power poles were "$30,000" away from our house building site. That's just about what we paid for our off grid solar panel system. -Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
-Veritas odium parit”(Terence 195–159 BC))-"Truth begets hatred".
09-12-2016, 10:42 AM
quote: Actually my understanding is that water pumping is one of the, if not the number one, most efficient energy storage methods. Not perfect of course, but compared to the inefficiencies of batteries it is a winner for large scale energy storage. PGV could be bubbling off hydrogen all night, as well as pumping water (in theory). I hope I am not around to see the CAVE folks protesting pumping water as a method of utilizing renewable energy systems... Lodestone, Your story is a sad one with no easy answers. At least (going by your topic title--which I enjoyed greatly) you have kept your sense of humor. The installer being willing to refund and undo the work shows some integrity, but that it is the result of their error in the first place shows a lack of accuracy that is very troubling. FWIW, there have been articles all over the place over the last months about grid interactive terms becoming less attractive all across the USA. I'm not sure Tom is correct that there is a relatively easy tech solution that would change Helco infrastructure to allow for unlimited solar input. I believe that it is inherent in the development of the central power plant model that the ability to incorporate rooftop solar is limited. OTOH, if there was such tech, the electric companies (and entire fossil fuel industry) would have no incentive to use it. Cheers, Kirt
09-12-2016, 12:16 PM
Kirt - Actually, HELCO has a large incentive to get rid of its power production plants and just focus on transmission. Building new power production plants is very expensive and risky to the utility company, which is why HELCO has been actively seeking alternative producers, that they can just buy and resell electricity from.
09-12-2016, 08:06 PM
Kirt - Actually, HELCO has a large incentive to get rid of its power production plants and just focus on transmission. Building new power production plants is very expensive and risky to the utility company, which is why HELCO has been actively seeking alternative producers, that they can just buy and resell electricity from.
Source to back up above statement Leilanidude ?
09-13-2016, 04:48 AM
Pumped storage is an extremely valuable method of managing load and is done in multiple places on the Mainland. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a cost-effective option here: our geology would make it extremely expensive to attempt because of the porous nature of our rocks. On the mainland, where you have sediment-filled basins, storage of water isn't much of a challenge. Here, any storage you chose to develop would require quite a bit of engineering, excavation costs would likely be 10X those in sediments, and the reservoir would have to be lined with an impermeable surface - likely costing many times, on an equivalent volume basis, what mainland storage reservoirs would cost (and that doesn't even address the environmental and regulatory costs of getting something like that built...).
It is unfortunate that the power company can't accept more solar and wind - but the reality is that both are extremely inefficient sources without some means of buffering the supply to the load. And yes, it would be great if we had cheap, efficient storage, but we don't. And claiming that we can run our economy on solar and wind is magical thinking at its worst...
09-13-2016, 05:48 AM
quote:Papers to sign? Oh, yes, all the time. Their words: DON'T WORRY ABOUT ANY PAPERWORK WE TAKE CARE OF ALL THAT. CAUTION: "F" word spoken... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOXtWxhlsUg |
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