No Solar For You

[leilanidude]

If you are trying to imply "fracking", yes some natural gas is obtained in that manner but it is a by-product of getting the oil. There are thousands of existing, traditional style wells that obtain natural gas too.

[kalakoa]

who cares, it's not in your backyard...

Bunker fuel and solar panels aren't manufactured in my backyard, either, therefore neither of them have any environmental side effects, right?

[Kapoho Joe]

https://www.hawaiielectriclight.com/abou...ble-energy

No LNG mentioned anywhere. No room for it in the 100% renewable plan.

[leilanidude]

Kapoho Joe - that is correct. It is shame they wouldn't let it be a 20+ year transitional. It will take 20+ years to get the other pieces into play, so why wouldn't the PUC allow HELCO to switch out bunker fuel for cheap and clean burning LNG in the meantime?

[Chas]

Leilanidude, I live in Pennsylvania, where there are 7,788 fracking wells producing ONLY gas. These wells are polluting the groundwater because they are EXEMPT from environmental regulations thanks to Dick Cheney. (It’s just a coincidence that Haliburton owns most of these wells).

These companies are using eminent domain to build pipelines through people’s property and environmentally sensitive areas. This is in the name of “producing energy here at home” and “making sure there is no shortage of gas for Pennsylvanians”. What they don’t tell you on the splashy commercials is that the pipeline is to get the gas to a port city in Maryland so they can export it… to CHINA.

Oh and yes you are correct there are traditional wells that produce gas as well. All extremely environmentally friendly I’m sure…

Kalakoa, you are commenting on something I didn’t say so there’s no reason to respond to you.

[Chas]

quote:

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Originally posted by geochem

Pumped storage is an extremely valuable method of managing load and is done in multiple places on the Mainland. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be a cost-effective option here: our geology would make it extremely expensive to attempt because of the porous nature of our rocks. On the mainland, where you have sediment-filled basins, storage of water isn't much of a challenge. Here, any storage you chose to develop would require quite a bit of engineering, excavation costs would likely be 10X those in sediments, and the reservoir would have to be lined with an impermeable surface - likely costing many times, on an equivalent volume basis, what mainland storage reservoirs would cost (and that doesn't even address the environmental and regulatory costs of getting something like that built...).

It is unfortunate that the power company can't accept more solar and wind - but the reality is that both are extremely inefficient sources without some means of buffering the supply to the load.

And yes, it would be great if we had cheap, efficient storage, but we don't. And claiming that we can run our economy on solar and wind is magical thinking at its worst...

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I've been watching a really interesting series called "Islands of the Future" on Pivot TV. Episode #1 was about the island of El Hierro in the Canary Islands. They hope to become completely self sufficient for electric use due to pumped storage. It is a volcanic island that looks a lot like Hawaii. I don't think it's as near as high of a population though.

As you said, it did cost a whole lot of money and they had to install a liner in their holding pond (a volcanic crater)... but they did it.

In the daytime they use the excess energy from wind turbines to run a desalinization plant and pump the water up to the pond. The water is then used for both drinking and creating electricity.

[Lodestone]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lodestone
As always when discussing solar energy, please refrain from heated tangents regarding climate change, fracking, Congress, Big Oil, hippies, geothermal, Islamic terrorism, and space-based solar. Thanks in advance.

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We still haven't addressed terrorism or space-based solar. Come on, people. You can do it.

[ericlp]

The sun can produce "residual" heat storage like the google solar plant in the desert of california. Also, the sun can power hydrogen generation to run a generator at night or when it's cloudy.

Still the best options are ... lithium batteries. Hopefully the new battery tech will help out.

[geochem]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chas


I've been watching a really interesting series called "Islands of the Future" on Pivot TV. Episode #1 was about the island of El Hierro in the Canary Islands. They hope to become completely self sufficient for electric use due to pumped storage. It is a volcanic island that looks a lot like Hawaii. I don't think it's as near as high of a population though.

As you said, it did cost a whole lot of money and they had to install a liner in their holding pond (a volcanic crater)... but they did it.

In the daytime they use the excess energy from wind turbines to run a desalinization plant and pump the water up to the pond. The water is then used for both drinking and creating electricity.

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Did they give any indication of what the cost was per MWH of storage? and lifetime cost per kwh? It's great if that can be done as a small scale demo, but for it to be considered here, we need to see whether it can be supported on a large scale without cratering our economy. Thoroughly sick of listening to rants on all these solutions that can't be supported by a viable economy - they aren't solutions, they're only distractions from solving the problem.

[Guest]

Chas
Da Kine
242 Posts
Posted - 09/14/2016 :  09:06:54      

Leilanidude, I live in Pennsylvania,


'lightbulb' moment ..... It all makes sense now chas. Lets us know when you can actually ___________ / puna.