No Solar For You

[Kapoho Joe]

quote:

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Originally posted by airportparking

Chas
Da Kine
242 Posts
Posted - 09/14/2016 :  09:06:54      

Leilanidude, I live in Pennsylvania,


'lightbulb' moment ..... It all makes sense now chas. Lets us know when you can actually ___________ / puna.

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Starting to sound like Opihikao Bob and Gypsy!

[Guest]

WHY Joe ???

And both of those guys are my cousins BTW.

[Chas]

quote:

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Originally posted by geochem

Did they give any indication of what the cost was per MWH of storage? and lifetime cost per kwh? It's great if that can be done as a small scale demo, but for it to be considered here, we need to see whether it can be supported on a large scale without cratering our economy. Thoroughly sick of listening to rants on all these solutions that can't be supported by a viable economy - they aren't solutions, they're only distractions from solving the problem.

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As far as costs, they weren’t that specific. After watching it again I did come away a few very important points:

They had a shortage of drinking water. A desalinization plant uses a huge amount of electricity, around 40% of the electricity used on the island.

The cost of fossil fuel was extremely high. (again no specifics were given)

There was huge support from both the population and the government to get off oil.

It took a really long time and a whole lot of money, but it was the will of the people and government that did it.

It seems like it worked out financially in the end, at least so far…

[Chas]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lodestone

[quote]Originally posted by Lodestone
As always when discussing solar energy, please refrain from heated tangents regarding climate change, fracking, Congress, Big Oil, hippies, geothermal, Islamic terrorism, and space-based solar. Thanks in advance.

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Oh yes, you DID say that in the beginning didn’t you? Guess I didn't read the fine print! []

Sorry I allowed myself to get sucked into it. I’ll try to refrain, however I did want to answer Geochem’s question.

[pahoated]

There is a dolt here that doesn't understand Hawaii Electric can own some solar panel farms, contract out some solar panel farms, buy additional solar panel farms and see some contracts terminate for cause.

Here is a recent example. This is the state canceling a Hawaii Electric building of a solar farm. It isn't the solar power that is disapproved by the state, it is the need for a transmission main to distribute the solar power. This utility power contract which sounds almost completed except for the transmission line is being stopped by two people.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/33103...er-project

*Japanese tourist on bus through Pahoa, "Is this still America?*

[kalakoa]

sounds almost completed except for the transmission line is being stopped by two people.

Bad example; this project was also designed to fit a zoning/land-use loophole, ironically the exact same problem caused by PGV "industrial use in a 'residential' area".

[leilanidude]

HELCO is not the owner nor builder of these 27 solar "projects. They are all owned by SPI Solar. HELCO does not want to build its own generation facilities. In this case, HELCO said they would buy the electricity for 23.8 cents per KWH. That does not help to lower consumer electric bills!

http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/news...-farm-plan

Snipped:
"The commission Friday suspended an application by the Hawaii Electric Light Co. to build an above-ground transmission line for a proposed substation that would support 27 Feed-In-Tariff solar projects.

That project would install tens of thousands of solar panels throughout 27 individual farms in and around Hawaiian Ocean View Ranchos. Each lot would be about 2 acres and produce 250 kilowatts each.

That would make them eligible for the Tier 2 Feed-In-Tariff program, which would allow developer SPI Solar to sell the power to HELCO at a rate of 23.8 cents per kilowatt hour."

[kalakoa]

From the fine article:

technically, we now have 26 FIT projects aggregated to a utility scale project of 6.5 megawatts seemingly under the same parent company,

In other words, breaking the project into enough pieces that each piece individually qualifies for specific tarriff treatment which would not otherwise be available to the entire project.

It's somewhat like making lots of small cash deposits at the bank so as to avoid the extra reporting requirements for a $10K cash transaction.

In any case ... the bigger problem with this entire project (again) is that it's effectively "structuring" the installation to shoehorn an "industrial" use into a "residential" area -- but because the lots are zoned "agricultural", both uses are allowed -- and it's worked out so well for PGV, let's keep doing it.

How would the residents of HPP feel if someone covered 52 lots with solar panels, and scattered them around the subdivision so that they were all next to someone's house?

Maybe the next Mayor will find time to address the "faux residential" problem...

[terracore]

"At least one place in California has been storing "power" for a long time. During low-demand hours, they pump water into a high reservoir. During high-demand hours, the water is released to flow through turbines and generate electricity"

The French have been storing their excess nuclear power produced at night in this manner for decades. I don't know a lot about their particular setup but in many other large projects the turbines that produce the power are also the pumps that move the water uphill.

"Pumped storage is the largest-capacity form of grid energy storage available, and, as of March 2012, the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) reports that PSH accounts for more than 99% of bulk production capacity worldwide, representing around 127 GW,[1] with storage capacity at 740 TWh.[citation needed] Typically, the round-trip energy efficiency of PSH varies in practice between 70% and 80%,[1][2][3][4] with some claiming up to 87%.[5] The main disadvantage of PHS is the specialist nature of the site required, needing both geographical height and water availability. Suitable sites are therefore likely to be in hilly or mountainous regions, and potentially in areas of outstanding natural beauty, and therefore there are also social and ecological issues to overcome.[6]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-sto...lectricity

[Chas]

Reading all the excellent posts from the many Punawebers who are either off grid or off grid with utility back up makes me think there would be an opportunity to start a business to convert existing homes or design new homes using the many different techniques described.

Is there currently any business on the island that does this?