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quote:
Originally posted by Johnd
We may want to point out for clarification sakes that the average lot has not risen by 7000. The data refers to a median calculated by actual sales not actual individual value. AND the higher median figure is the product of half a dozen lots that were sold way above and beyond. The data does not indicate whether improvements were present in those particular lots, most likely they were.. specially if they had any unpermitted structures on them. The only one being an exemption, would be the Beach Rd lot,just because those do command such prices near the ocean.
Reality is that the average lot listing asking price is showing more modesty as shown by the MLS. I do agree that there may be an increase of listings lowering prices if investors give up.
I would love to hear that HPP valuation is taking off, but there is a difference between the wishful thinking of realtors salivating at their chops with the last piece of viable dirt cheap real estate in the islands, and reality. No one argues that HPP is not a diamond in the rough, but the impact of a recklessly managed "road association" will shatter any glossy predictions. Owners that live by roads full of overgrowth and potholes are going to get tired very soon. Out of site owners may want to cash in the chips before the liability created by a fully foolish Board send the subdivision into receivership.
This association is at the end of its road. The chip seal project is going to be be its downfall, along the shameless Board's inability to maintain the roads they were trusted to maintain.
What makes me so exasperated on top of years of complaints about the Boards and the steady degradation of roads, are those who, for one reason or the other, are looking the other way. Instead of working to improve the governance, we are settling for the lowest common denominator.
KALOKA...ALL IN GOOD TIME.
jdo
Those are unimproved lots, if it has an unpermitted structure it is still listed as a house and land. If anyone bothers to spend the time looking at prices lots in HPP have actually sold for over the last 2 years, as opposed to just speculating with zero data, there is a steady increase in both asking and selling prices and a steady decrease in selling time. I didn't cherry pick months, if you look at the data over a longer time these selling prices are not an anomaly, they are part of a steady upward trend for both land and houses in HPP, all of Puna really.
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"Those are unimproved lots, if it has an unpermitted structure it is still listed as a house and land. If anyone bothers to spend the time looking at prices lots in HPP have actually sold for over the last 2 years, as opposed to just speculating with zero data, there is a steady increase in both asking and selling prices and a steady decrease in selling time. I didn't cherry pick months, if you look at the data over a longer time these selling prices are not an anomaly, they are part of a steady upward trend for both land and houses in HPP, all of Puna really."
[/quote
Nope, you may be referring to a steady increase in house prices in general in the Big Island, even although Hawaiian Paradise Park is still way undervalued. But lot prices? Nope. Some of the lots are even cheaper than a year ago. If a house or in most cases a shack, is not permitted or its permits are not finalized, it is land value plus whatever the buyer thinks it is worth. The improvements can be anything,shack, driveway,clearing, water tank,fruit trees! Rock walls! For all what I care. In addition structures cannot be legally listed if permits have not being finalized although some squeal by. So what I was referring to may be small improvements that represent additional value and not precisely houses, but value nonetheless that may jack up the price of a lot by 10 grand or even more. One can make data look like Marilyn Monroe, but it is still Rosie O'Donnell.
jdo
[/quote]
jdo
jdo
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The idea of having to replace the front end of your vehicle once a year is not a good selling point..no matter how cheap the lot is.
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quote:
Originally posted by Hmmm
The last road that was chip sealed less than six months ago is already deteriorating it has potholes and will probly have a lifespan of 2 yrs max thats a waste of our dues
But isn't the chip seal a part of the dust reduction?
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having to replace the front end of your vehicle once a year is not a good selling point
Yes and no; it's cheaper than mandatory dues and higher property taxes.
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John.. not sure I am getting what you are saying. I am 100% sure that the board is using 2 legal firms for the lawsuit and thought they used the same 2 for arbitration plus a few other attorneys for other things. They do not have a problem spending our money this way. You are right, attorneys are a dime a dozen and i don't think there is 1 worth anything at least on this island. It is all about the billable hours so they drag everything on and are willing to do anything for a buck. No morals.
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Joined: Sep 2014
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
the impact of a recklessly managed "road association" will shatter any glossy predictions
This is exactly why I think there should be more mandatory real estate disclosures for any "private ag subdivision" -- yes, "buyer to perform own due diligence" but too many don't bother and/or are told shiny happy lies ("we intend to pave all the roads").
That is one pesky issue, how is the prospective buyer going to know all this petty stuff even if they seat at one meeting? Call the office! Lol!
When we bought here we were told all roads would be paved. Then I attended the first meeting and a Board member snapped at a neighbor and said that dead end roads would never get paved. I stood up and asked him to clarify that, and he started to mumble and said he had not say that the roads would never be paved. I rebuffed that he had said so in front of the camera, and now we had documented testimony. At that point I realized we had been taken by the realtor and the HPP office.
We decided to hedge our investment in HPP by building a smaller house instead of what we had planned and invest the rest elsewhere. Glad we did that. Between the squatters, the meth zombies patrols, the ganja producer up the road with his police department clientele, but mostly the ever present issues with the roads dissipating under rain and overgrowth AND no attention by the manager has left us in plain disbelief.
But that was years ago, when at least the manager would still try to help and our fees were way lower than the new proposed blunder! Now disbelief has turned into plain outrage when we have to take turns to clear our roads and the Board clowns raise fees left and right like they are some kind of a God appointed court. I read the minutes, it is always a downer, most like some idiomatic vomit of sorts, rather than a legible community plan written by rational and awake individuals.
jdo
jdo
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quote:
Originally posted by Katarina
John.. not sure I am getting what you are saying. I am 100% sure that the board is using 2 legal firms for the lawsuit and thought they used the same 2 for arbitration plus a few other attorneys for other things. They do not have a problem spending our money this way. You are right, attorneys are a dime a dozen and i don't think there is 1 worth anything at least on this island. It is all about the billable hours so they drag everything on and are willing to do anything for a buck. No morals.
Katrina, I believe I mentioned to get advice from a.... Honolulu attorney in my previous post. But, I believe that the attorney general's office would need to be involved on this.
jdo
jdo
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Nothing will change until the County and State governments want it to.
You dont have enough money to fight them.
You are not the first folks to try to fight what is happening.
Those who dont know the full history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. This goes for most all subdivisions.
Otherwise you are lemmings following the same trail as others before you. Get off that trail eat the hamburger and not the steak you ordered. Go slow when you drive and leave early and you wont have to worry about the front end of your car,cut the grass yourselves. Otherwise you will follow the bad trail and go off the cliff and into the sea,or spend your kala and learn the lesson the hard way yourselves.
Slow Walker
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Reni wrote:
Mermaid,
Thanks for posting road information. Do you know if anyone actually went thru with the threat of arbitration? Do you know what it was for specifically? And if there was actually a request for arbitration, at what stage is this proceeding as of this month?
Mahalo and Mele Kalikimaka to you and your family. R
_______
Reni, Mele Kalikimaka to you and your family as well.
Regarding the arbitration....The arbitration is pau. The arbitrator and atty fees have been finalized. The fees were basically cut down the middle to be shared by both parties which was the only thing fair about the entire arbitration process. Initially the claimants tried to sit down and negotiate w/the board before filing with an arbitrator. They wanted to discuss several board bylaw violations w/them. The board disregarded the request. Please note that the arbitration didn't involve the men on the current board as the arbitration issues stemmed from violations during the 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 terms.
What was supposed to be a mediated situation hence "arbitration", turned into what looked and smelled like a lawsuit after the board decided to hire their lawsuit attys, both of them, to represent the case. That's what wracked up the arbitration costs. The claimants were at great disadvantage not having atty representation while the board had 2 attys working on the case financed by the association. The claimants decided to withdraw the last demand from the 6 arbitration "issues" to keep from going on to hearings...they wanted to cut the costs which was recommended by the arbitrator.
There were several items in the arbitration.. Here is a summary of some of the issues and demands for correction made by the claimants:
1. The composition of Finance Committee. Dist 5 rep was illegally seated on the FC. There are no board minutes showing she was ever apptd yet she was voting as a committee member.
2. Illegal business conducted in exec sessions. Our bylaws are very specific...only 3 items can be discussed in exec sessions. Personnel issues, matters of litigation, or matters of atty/client privilege. The board was conducting regular board business under the cloak of exec session=non transparency.
3. Termination of the road crew supv by Dist 5 rep w/out board approval. The GM was out of town at the time and instructed the road crew supv to do what he thought was best in regards to the DOH warning of our road crew using oil leaking equipment on the roads. When he returned from purchasing required items to fix the equipment, the road crew was back on the road w/the leaky equipment. The rep had undermined the road crew supv's directives to his road crew. She handed him his termination papers the next day w/out a paycheck...day before Thanksgiving. The road crew supv gave a written statement of these events to the claimants. I read it myself.
4. Failure of the board treasurer to comply with trust indenture. I don't have the details on this one but maybe someone else may know and can fill you in. I think it had to do w/being delinquent.
5. Failure to enforce our restricted driveway policy. We now have several illegal driveways on main drags since this particular incident was brought to the GM's attention last year springtime.
6. Conflict of interest in regards to the hiring of Dist 5 rep's niece without a board mtg, board vote and other bids.
Per Robert's Rules 11th Edition P 343: "Motions that conflict w/the corporate charter, constitution, or bylaws of a society, or w/procedural rules prescribed by nat'l, state, or local laws, are out of order, and if any motion of this kind is adopted, it is null and void." P 125 "An assembly can ratify only such actions of its officers, committees, delegates, or subordinate bodies as it would have had the right to authorize in advance. ...nor can it ratify anything done in violation of procedural rules prescribed by nat'l, state, or local law, or in violation of its own bylaws..."
Thank you Rob for providing HPP members a forum to communicate w/each other.
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