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Thanks for posting, mermaid -- what a mess. "So unprofessional..." <<there you have it.
I am glad, however, to know that there are board members (well one anyway) who see that they jumped the gun before going to membership, before enough information was collected. Does this mean that the committee specifically set up for the mailbox thing wasn't aware of the mailing until after the fact? Ouch.
Interesting that USPS had offered 4,000 boxes over a year ago. I hadn't heard that yet.
btw, has anyone noticed that the letter (2nd iteration online) says, "we will need to receive affirmative majority of mail-in vote of not less than 600 members in good standing." I totally read that as they'd need 600 affirmative votes, but as my neighbor pointed out, this could be construed as a "majority of 600 votes," i.e., 301. Also, note "mail-in" - i.e., not handed in person. Just sayin'.
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Regarding mailboxes for vacant lots......let there be 8800 boxes for all the lots in HPP if that's what the PO requires. However, only lots with street addresses need to pay the box fee. The vacant lots will have unassigned boxes (with no fee due) until a permit is pulled and the County Bldg. Dept issues a street address. Whoever pulls the permit should pay the box fee. If the office still maintains the permit list and wall map, they should know what permits have been issued every month. Of course it would be easiest if the person that pulled the permit and wants a mailbox, goes and requests the box directly from and pay the fee directly to the PO, gets the keys and bypasses HPPOA altogether. They would need to show the PO the TMK and street address for the lot they want the box for.
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That makes logical sense msky. We still have the inequity of those of us who have boxes in HPP already for free, and those who want one in HPP would have to pay for one. Something else needs to be worked out to make it fair. I had assumed the assignment of boxes would work in the same manner it is now...through the post ofc who would provide the key..????
Dtisme, there was a real disconnect between the 3 members on the mailbox committee. The 2 guys claimed that Dist 2 hadn't responded to their emails and that she told them to pick up the ball and run with it. She responded "but not over my head or around me!!!" How were they to know, they're newbies? And she's the very one who told one of these guys when he questioned whether he should w/draw as a candidate for his district (he lost Dist 4) bc he was too green, she told him he didn't need to know anything.."We didn't know anything either." [  ] There ya go! He later filled a board vacancy.
The bottom line is that the new pres failed in her duties to make sure that everything that was sent to the membership was in order before mailing. There should've been a board vote approving the draft/s and it appears that didn't happen. Who's in charge? Who's going rogue? And if the ballots we rec'd really was a ballot, then a 3rd party should've rec'd and counted them...otherwise there's no checks and balances and a bylaw breaking board w/an agenda could say they got their votes w/no proof. If it ever comes to a ballot phase down the road, we better make sure this board has a 3rd party set up to receive and count them. Sorry but I don't trust these reps after the last election FRAUD.
As for the 600 votes in Article XI Sec 8...I believe it means minimum 600 ballots received and a majority of the votes affirmative. They did say don't send any $ or ballots. Wait until the membership mtg where members can get answers to their questions. The 2 male reps said they welcome suggestions as their proposal isn't perfect. All they want is to find a way to help members who don't have mailboxes in HPP the opportunity to get one.
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Thanks for all the info, mermaid. I'm glad at least one of us was there to see and hear it all and to let us know what transpired. I personally don't want to be in an environment with yelling, so I'll sit out the general membership meeting, too. I really appreciate you going!
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Given how vague the insert was, I wonder if people sent in money for the mailbox, and where that money went.
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quote:
Originally posted by Chas
Given how vague the insert was, I wonder if people sent in money for the mailbox, and where that money went.
This reminds me of the long gone "Coqui Frog Fund". Folks sent in money assuming their lot would be treated to get rid of the frogs. The fund wasn't for that. The money was put into a fund to buy sprayers and the chemicals for lot owners to check out and treat their own lots. It was a well-meaning failure. Some folks (especially the Japanese lot owners) thought it was a mandatory fee and sent it. It was the result of another poorly worded survey.
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Reni wrote: (taken from HPP road maint thread)
... have been debating the "mail box assessment" and most likely will even pay this..under protest... if this latest nonsense passes.
Will someone please tell me , WHERE IN OUR BYLAWS, our board has the legal right to represent us with the USPS and bill us for mail boxes? I think they overstepping their rights with this one which could result in a class action law suit. What do the rest of you think?
After further thought on your question, I believe that the mailbox project would come under Article IV Objects and Purposes (a) "To ascertain the needs and desires of lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision and represent those needs and desires as appropriate. (d) To serve as a representative of lot owners of Hawaiian Paradise Park to government agencies, officials, and community organizations on issues affecting or arising from Hawaiian Paradise Park."
And: Article VIII Board of Directors Sec 8 Powers and Authority "Except for the limitations set by the Articles of Incorporation and by these bylaws as to actions to be authorized or approved by the membership and subject to the duties of the directors as prescribed by the bylaws, all corporate powers and affairs of the Association shall be exercised or controlled by or with authority of the board. The directors shall have such power and duties as may be necessary or proper including, but not limited to the following: (a) Prepare short and long-range plans to support the Association Objects and Purposes as per Article IV. (b) Conduct, manage, and control affairs and business of the Association, and make policies and procedures not inconsistent with law, the Articles of Incorporation, or the bylaws.
Let's now skip to (k) of same above Article VIII Sec 8: "Ensure that finances are protected and managed to the best interests of the Association. To accomplish this purpose, the board shall establish reasonable formulas, policies, and procedures by which administrative costs are to be divided between restricted funds and the non-road fund. Such policies may include but are not limited to issuing checks drawn on separate bank accounts as budgeted by the board. Nothing in this section shall be interpreted in such a way as to relieve the board of the responsibility to account for all road funds separately in accordance with generally accepted accounting practices nor to empower the board to expend road maintenance funds for any purpose other than road maintenance activities."
(Road Maint Activities includes collecting, accounting for, administering, and protecting road maint funds, and managing, operating, maintaining, and protecting road maint property.)
Article V Sec 2. Road Maintenance Funds "Any money collected for road maintenance activities including, but not limtied to, any late penalties, interest paid on road maintenance assessments, lien fees, transfer fees, and interest and dividends paid by banks or other financial institutions on road maintenance funds."
Article V Bylaw Definitions Sec 3 Special Assessment. "An assessment approved by the membership for the purpose of extraordinary road maintenance outside of the scope of day-to-day operations."
Article XI Assessments Sec 3 Compensation for use of Non-Road Maintenance Assets. (the board skipped over this section and went straight to Sec 8) I already posted this in this thread but here goes again: "The road maintenance funds are restricted funds and shall be used exclusively for road maintenance activities. A portion of road maintenance funds shall be exclusively used to compensate the Association General Fund for the use of the Association's non-road maintenance assets for road maintenance purposes. The amount of compensation shall be determined annually by the board and shall not exceed 5% of road maintenance funds collected in any given year."
Sec 8 Special Assessments (which the board quoted in the mailbox ballot: "In addition to the annual mandatory road maintenance assessment, per Sec 2, above, the Association may make special assessments for any road maintenance costs only upon the affirmative majority of mail-in vote of not less than 600 members in good standing. Any ballot for special assessments shall include the terms of payment and specify an effective date."
(Mail in vote, meaning not a vote done at a membership mtg to ensure the entire membership votes)
IMO, Emphasis on IMO, both mailboxes and CS should be treated the same, which is both projects should first be approved by the membership by ballot vote, (w/3rd party receiving and counting ballots) and handled as Capital Improvement projects. Both projects affect the membership and our roads in a profound way, therefore justifies a mandatory MEMBERSHIP VOTE.
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Ignoring the obvious "but nobody follows the rules anyway" ...
(a) To ascertain the needs and desires of lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision and represent those needs and desires as appropriate. (d) To serve as a representative of lot owners of Hawaiian Paradise Park to government agencies, officials, and community organizations on issues...
Note well the wording: ascertain and represent. I don't see any fiduciary responsibility nor spending authority here.
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quote:
Originally posted by msky
quote:
Originally posted by Chas
Given how vague the insert was, I wonder if people sent in money for the mailbox, and where that money went.
This reminds me of the long gone "Coqui Frog Fund". Folks sent in money assuming their lot would be treated to get rid of the frogs. The fund wasn't for that. The money was put into a fund to buy sprayers and the chemicals for lot owners to check out and treat their own lots. It was a well-meaning failure. Some folks (especially the Japanese lot owners) thought it was a mandatory fee and sent it. It was the result of another poorly worded survey.
Wow. I didn't know that. We sent the money for that one.
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Ignoring the obvious "but nobody follows the rules anyway" ...
(a) To ascertain the needs and desires of lot owners of the Hawaiian Paradise Park subdivision and represent those needs and desires as appropriate. (d) To serve as a representative of lot owners of Hawaiian Paradise Park to government agencies, officials, and community organizations on issues...
Note well the wording: ascertain and represent. I don't see any fiduciary responsibility nor spending authority here.
I agree with that. BUT members who don't have mailboxes in HPP want mailboxes in the park. It's especially a hardship for the elderly. We already have one and it took 2 yrs to get ours. Last time I chk'd for a neighbor last fall, the USPS said the waiting list is 3 yrs. So in this specific case, this would come under "ascertain" and "represent" I believe don't you think? Spending authority would come by way of mandatory membership vote with a proposed sound financial plan. Now that's where it gets dubious w/out the FC in place helping out.
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