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TMT proposed they would bring 26 million to the state annually but most of that was through trickle down economics from well paid technicians and closed loop with the University.
If it's a closed loop it wouldn't trickle.
And $1.5 billion not only trickles, it pours.
Technicians at the observatory and scientists at the university:
* rent homes benefiting home owners in Hawaii
* buy groceries, providing jobs to workers
* buy clothing, household goods, etc
* go to movies, golf, etc
They spend money which in turn employs local residents.
(edited to add)
Take the rainstorm today. Do you complain that a scientist or professor with a slightly larger roof may collect more rainwater in his catchment than another person? I don't. When $1.5 billion comes pouring down we're not discussing whether a glass (or catchment tank) is half empty or half full. We all benefit. We can all be happy our tanks are filling up.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Mindamoya here Ohiagirl. We are all a magical mix of something and something else. Human.
Frankly, I don't want to ever separate myself from the land! It is so generous and doesn't care what hue a person is! IMO, we shouldn't either.
Back to TMT. Sorry for the diversion folks.
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HOT I have heard that logic but think the project would still mostly benefit the technicians and scientists.
Seemingly related, when lawmakers were arguing against the travel ban, one less circumspect commentator was complaining to the camera that the Ban would prevent a cheap labor force from arriving from the Phillipines in regards to the building of a naval facility, "We certainly can't afford Hawaiians." She said indignantly. I think that's telling about the general MO in big biz here. There may be a few snow bird renting out homes but most homeowners live in them and the cost of buying is so low comparatively I can see the influx of talent being good for the housing market briefly.
Kenney....Treasure Island 
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the project would still mostly benefit the technicians and scientists
In that these people would have jobs, yes. They still have to sleep somewhere, eat something, and transport themselves to/from work. Rent, groceries, auto registration, safety check, GET on all purchases, income tax. How do these things not benefit the larger population?
"We certainly can't afford Hawaiians."
The cost of Hawaiian labor nearly drove me to bankruptcy -- I'm not "big biz", so I couldn't import workers like the corporates often do.
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I think this article does a good job covering the impact:
http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/thirty-met...s-economy/
Specific to ohiagrrl's assumptions:
More than 80% of the jobs in a typical observatory are not in research fields
Most jobs only require two or four years of college education.
“Observatories prefer local hires whenever possible, but there aren’t enough qualified local applicants.”
– Jim Kennedy, former head of the Gemini Telescope
2007 survey of Hawaii Island observatories’ technical and administrative staff
* 27% born and raised on Hawaii Island
* 33% living in the state when hired
the article doesn't mention the spin off companies, like the engineering firm in Hilo that does sensor work for the observatories and now has international contracts. Unfortunately I can't remember their name at the moment....
I happen to see the multi billion dollar TMT project a bit differently for several reasons, here are only a few.
The TMT trickle effect may be pricing many more Hawaiians, Families, retirees and local folks out of Hawaii. The 1.5 billion dollar TMT project will help hundreds more from elsewhere in the world move over to the big island which may cause home prices and rent to rise even more. These TMT folks will buy more groceries, cloths and household goods that will give reasons for those item prices to rise too. The few theaters, restaurants and golf course rates will all have reasons to increase prices as the demand may be greater. Meanwhile more Hawaiians and local folks born-n-raised here may be in need of more EBT and county housing or continue to squat or go homeless trying to live in Hawaii.
The TMT project wants to bulldoze 5 plus acres atop our mountain of Mauna Kea while also developing several more acres. The 300 plus employee's the TMT will hire and move over to the Big Island may also want to rent, buy and bulldoze more land. The TMT project may create a need and priority for more electricity, water and fuel for the next generation to 75 years. All this added development may create a higher demand and price for these types of resources. This type of continued development of projects like the TMT on the Big Island may help increase the climate changes we are all seeing and experiencing today. Many Big Island folks today are choosing to stand and even march as they feel enough is enough already.
http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2017/0...ii-island/
I don't remember the sugar cane or any other agricultural industry in Hawaii causing as much suffering or oppression as the tourism industry is now starting to cause here on Hawaii Island. Projects like the TMT may bring millions more tourists to the top of Hawaii's most sacred mountain, the Hawaiians Piko. This sudden increase of tourism to the summit of Mauna Kea will only cause more dust and destruction to some fragile or sensitive environmental areas while also causing much pain and sadness within many of our Hawaiian communities. Many of our big Island beaches and parks may have to charge more so they can add extra large parking lots to cope with the millions of added visitors attracted by projects like the TMT. jmo's
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/31371...cent-study
This Uncle in this video from Ouhu tries to share some truths of living in Hawaii today. The big island has always been a few decades behind Oahu and Maui when it comes to development. Yet, Multi billion dollar projects like the TMT may erase that behind the times issue the Big Island has had in a hurry. Maybe multi billion dollar projects like rail or TMT should be done "RIGHT". jmo's
http://stabmag.com/news/priced-out-of-pa...ification/
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Oh my. The end of the world as we know it.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by ohiagrrl
C'mon Chunkster,Do you also believe that Judge Derrick Watson had no right to overrule the Muslim Travel Ban? Opposition in the Jeff Sessions camp has the same arguement, "Who is Hawaii to make decisions for the Mainland??"
C'mon, ohiagrrl. How do you get from what I said to the absurd assumption that I agree with Jeff Sessions? I don't. In fact, one could even make the argument that some of the TMT protesters who deny the fact that Hawaii is a legal part of the United States are closer to that point of view than I am.
Assuming that the tourist industry is all Hawaii needs to survive economically is also fallacy. We have a serious brain drain of young, well-educated people, both ethnic Hawaiian and non-Hawaiian, leaving Hawaii for better job opportunities. Those tourist jobs changing beds and serving plate lunches to visitors don't cut it for them. It's not just the TMT jobs alone, but all the other businesses that will never come here because of the unfolding debacle.
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Gypsy Thanks. Gentrification is no joke.
Eric, agreed, Tech companies do draw other tech companies and then suddenly rents and home prices go up by 300% in the first year then within a decade by 500% or more. Boston, ruined. SF, ruined, etc...Gentrification is a community killer unless of course you are part of the new gentry. Re: locals employed in and around the Astronomy Park, the protest against TMT was based on how badly Kealoha Pisciotta was treated while working a tech job at another observatory.
Rob, Being pushed further and further into Lava Zone 1 or down to South Point is literally the end of the world.
Chunkster, I believe you didn't mean to sound like Sessions, but it was the exact same argument you used.
"Who are minority Hawaiians to make decisions for the larger population?" I believe they are American citizens who forfeited their ancestral lands unwillingly and deserve every respect the Constitution affords them. If they found legal loop holes to establish base line rights it is because the loopholes were there to find.
Re: Tourism it supports many local artisans not just service industry jobs which are there for the convenience of well heeled malihini. With global tourist destinations under threat of terorism and blights like Zika, Hawaii is due to see an expansion of already growing tourist stats (despite the Trump boycott). And regarding the brain drain to which you refer, maybe temporarily for astronomers (specifically for TMT employees departing if TMT poops out), but a better deal for a Next Generation Telescope may be somewhere on the horizon with better oversight and fail safes in place and a much better deal for the Island of Hawaii and it's residents. These mountain tops are not everywhere and the Hawaiian community must be appeased on this issue because it will never go away. Also more young people are homesteading in Puna then I have seen in 40 years mostly in the fields of Agriculture, biology, marine biology, forestry, volcanology, etc... I would hate to see this new crop of kids get priced out of Paradise. Also many Hawaiians from other islands are moving here because they can no longer afford their home Islands. Are you suggesting people in these fields and ethnicities have less to offer than astronomers? We still live on Earth fella.
In any event, the whole TMT as "Savior" thing is an interesting narrative but one with alot of plot holes.
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Tech companies do draw other tech companies and then suddenly rents and home prices go up by 300%
Tech companies require infrastructure which does not exist on this island.
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