Is Mauna Loa relevant to the TMT debate?

[snorkle]

A study is now underway to evaluate the feasibility of a telescope on Loíhi Volcano sometime in the year 153210.

[Tink]

I'm sure the mutant protesters will claim Lohii sacred as a gift from Madam Pelé and Namakaokahai, kapu to all.

Community begins with Aloha

[TomK]

"I gathered TomK might have been referring to alternate sites worldwide, but he mentioned “lower altitude” and I understand you folks have a very strong preference for higher altitudes, e.g., existing projects in Chile’s Atacama Desert @ about 8,000 ft., and Canary islands (under consideration) reach over 12,000 ft.

Just curious what is considered lower altitude vs high altitude (and the interesting question of say how the Chile site would compare to say 5,000 feet on Hawaii island.) (Or is 8000 feet deemed "lower altitude?")"

The ALMA observatory, a submillimeter array, is in the Atacama desert. It is over 16,000 ft high.

There is no strict definition of high altitude and lower altitude in astronomy, but if you want to do work in the infrared, which most of the MK telescopes do, then you want to be as high as possible to get above the water in the atmosphere. Water absorbs IR light, so the lower you are, the worse it gets. Putting aside lava flows and earthquakes, as for optical (visual) work, the slopes of Mauna Kea would not be a good site. For instance, one benefit of using the top of Mauna Kea is that the trade winds go around the mountain rather than over it. Winds cause turbulence which affects the delivered image quality of a telescope. Placing an astronomical telescope on the slopes would put you right into this wind flow.

[MarkD]

Lots of good info above. With all the talk about Mauna Loa's risk for eruption, I am still intrigued by the Mauna Loa Observatory. They have more than 1 or 2 small buildings up there. (MLO collects air samples, and there also is a solar observatory on site.)

I understand that, aside from the absurdity of placing any highly expensive structure in a site like that, the regular mini-quake activity compromises most other telescope equipment.

Still, I find it interesting that they now have 60 plus years' work at 11,141 ft. They elected to site quite far up Mauna Loa.

[TomK]

This guy was observing at UKIRT on Mauna Kea when he went through the process of dealing with an earthquake. I was the one who had to recalibrate everything after they put the telescope back where it should be.

https://youtu.be/yn5pHqENfJA

[MarkD]

Thanks, Tom. I do not doubt earthquake effect on machinery. I just find their siting that high on Mauna Loa interesting.

[TomK]

Jimbo:

"Also, Dr. Jim Juvik from UHH has climate data from Mauna Loa that shows it is wetter from clouds and fog at the summit more often than Mauna Kea. So even if it was worth the risk from an active volcano, the viewing would not be as good."

That's interesting, I wasn't aware of this. Do you happen to have a link? From my time on Mauna Kea, it's obvious ML's summit area suffers from more convective clouds above summit level compared to Mauna Kea, but they usually disappear after sunset as the land cools. On the other hand, Mauna Loa has much gentler slopes than Mauna Kea, and wouldn't be surprised if it's easier for low-level moisture to be forced up the slopes.

[Eric1600]

Originally posted by MarkD
I am still intrigued by the Mauna Loa Observatory. They have more than 1 or 2 small buildings up there.

MarkD, since you seem to be our local internet tourist, I'll fill you in. I've toured the facilities up there and yes there are more than just 1 or 2 small buildings.

* MLSO Solar Observatory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauna_Loa_...bservatory
* MLO Atmospheric Observatory https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/obop/mlo/
* HI-SEAS exo-planet habitat simulations https://hi-seas.org/
* AMiBA - Microwave telescope array for cosmic background radiation studies
* Global Oscillations Network Group (GONG) - study seismic activities on the sun
* Variable Young Stellar Object Survey (VYSOS) - 2 telescopes to study newly forming stars
* (Part of MLSO) COronal Solar Magnetism Observatory (COSMO)

There are several projects there that are half completed waiting for funding and/or permission. In addition to MLO having an area for UH Hilo student experiments.

Some other things up there:

* Shelter hut near summit https://alavigne.net/Miscellaneous/Commo...9334-36442
* Massive trenched lava barrier http://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-aerial-...24333.html

Technically Mauna Loa is as equally important as Mauna Kea in terms of cultural significance. The poison wood gods plays a big role in old Hawaiian society. Recently (~2000 to now) Mauna Kea has gotten all the attention though. Access is difficult so there's almost no new ahus or religious practices up there.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Access is difficult so there's almost no new ahus or religious practices up there. (Mauna Loa)

Mauna Loa is probably a good control study, or comparative study when discussing the ancient religious practices on Mauna Kea. Certainly there were some, but road or path access seems to be the key in how often and how many took place.

Even today Mauna Loa is less accessible, and as you pointed out, less used by practitioners.

It... lends weight to Goethe's felicitous description of architecture as 'frozen music.' ... Does this, I often wonder, make music 'defrosted architecture?' Listening to Bach's Goldberg variations as I often do on walks when motorway noise and other auditory intrusions preclude the music of silence, it strikes me that it might. - Pub Walks in Underhill Country, Nat Segnit

[MarkD]

Thank you, Eric. My curiously was much directed to the siting of this facility high up on a mountain with a heavy recent history of eruption, as numerous commentators described above.

One or two commentators observed they were very ill-advised to build here (in 1956). I wondered what other folks had to say about that risk.