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I'm not sure why people are obsessed with the DUI/license aspect
It does seem a rather emotional response to the real issue at hand. I can only imagine it's a continuation of the accusations made last year, and the subsequent rally cry that erupted among supporters when Mexicans were accused of being murderers and rapists. In the case of Ortiz he was neither, not even close. Instead his detractors grabbed onto whatever crime he did commit in an attempt to continue the unrestrained fuhrer with claims he could have been a murderer if he had crashed his car into someone and killed them. It's the modus operandi these days, and the crowd is primed.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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This is how most people understand and use the word nowadays, I'm not surprised you're all for it:
discrimination
1. the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
By the way, lest you have to apologize again, this forum is for Hawaii-related matters, not for giving your opinion on everything.
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Reply to Eric1600 I write carefully because I already violated the “local topics only” rule. But immigration is important to all communities nationwide; I trust there will be warning if we stray too far.
On my context problem regarding your “being sent to Australia” hypothetical, pardon my misinterpretation.
My comment: And they and their supporters should not be lobbying for the right to enter illegally. Your reply: No one is making that argument.
I am not going to cite links; just google “open borders in America.” Huge sentiment for this, and disregarding current immigration law. Large numbers of illegals enter the U.S. with the assumption that things will work out in due course regarding citizenship, e.g., amnesty.
You mention “paranoia” about illegals ("paranoia" has a rather negative connotation). There are factors other than a supposed fear or dislike of newcomers.
1) I agree with the anti-immigration position that the Sierra Club took decades ago (it has since shifted to pro-immigration; PC pressure, IMO). We have way too many people in the U.S. already. Look at Honolulu; the overcrowding is insane, IMO. How many more people do we want? Is there any limit? Most facets of life are impacted: traffic, parking, crowding at parks, lines in stores, more roads into our forests, more development, pollution. (And it is much the same on the East and West Coasts.)
We are not like Japan, with its declining birth rate. Hawaii and the U.S. have vibrant birth rates; population will rise without immigration. Enough already.
2) Illegal immigrants, almost universally hard working and mostly law-abiding, outcompete many Americans for jobs. Relatively high wages compared to home are the impetus. Many statisticians have been dishonest here; yes immigration helps the economy as a whole, but it is very harmful to certain groups.
Fact: In the 1960s, African Americans held the majority of janitorial, car wash, and day labor positions nationwide. These folks have been almost completely supplanted by illegals (and legal immigrants). Result: high unemployment in the black community. It is extraordinary how immigration supporters have been able to obscure/deny this fact.
In Hawaii we have many dysfunctional folks (paroles and homeless) that need to be “reintegrated.” (the buzzword of sociologists). These folks are mostly poorly educated; there is a very long list of jobs that many of these folks are not suitable for. Landscaping and farm labor--work that can be done with little training and that has minimal “presentation requirements”--are two jobs that these folks can be shifted into over the next 2 decades. Illegal immigration (and large scale legal immigration) hinders this process.
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To PaulW And discrimination can also be beneficial to certain groups, e.g., affirmative action. Or extra benefits to Native Hawaiians, as I advocated several times.
If you read all the posts, you will see some folks are much more harsh on immigrants than I am. (But I guess that doesn't matter to you.)
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Plenty of people frothing at the mouth about illegals, you're the only one against immigrants in general that I can recall.
Are you not descended from immigrants? Do you wish they were refused entry? People have said "we're full" since the early 1800s.
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Keep it local, or it will go away folks.
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
Plenty of people frothing at the mouth about illegals, you're the only one against immigrants in general that I can recall.
Are you not descended from immigrants? Do you wish they were refused entry? People have said "we're full" since the early 1800s.
Come now... that's not really fair nor appropriate. Just because someone's great-great grandpappy was something or did something does not mean their descendants should follow suit.
Anecdotally, in this case a good majority of us should be sympathetic to incestual slaveholders who indenture their children and call for free thinking women to be burned at the steak.
Times, people, public sentiment... these things change.
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Constructive criticism here: Do you mean "ancestral" and "stake"?
Otherwise I heartily agree with your point.
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I wondered what that was!
Galling when people profit from a policy and then seek to withhold it from others, usually not for the best reasons.
So you two are also against all immigration, like MarkD?
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Originally posted by MarkD
Reply to Eric1600 I write carefully...
Huh? One misquote and confused context.
My [MarkD] comment: And they and their supporters should not be lobbying for the right to enter illegally. Your reply [eric1600]: No one is making that argument.
I didn't realize I had to specify that: No one here on PunaWeb where you are discussing this issue is making that argument.
There are factors other than a supposed fear or dislike of newcomers:
1. [Overpopulation]
2. [Illegals taking jobs]
Both of these are assumptions falsified by data. I'm paraphrasing both of your arguments here but immigrants make up a very small portion of the US and Hawaii population growth.
Foreign-born Americans and their descendants have been the main driver of U.S. population growth, as well as of national racial and ethnic change, since passage of the 1965 law that rewrote national immigration policy. They also will be the central force in U.S. population growth and change over the next 50 years. [/i]
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/09/28/ch...on-change/
Secondly, jobs. Studies have shown that immigrants (legal or illegal) in general are not having an impact on availability of jobs.
"The number of U.S.-born workers with no college education has declined by almost 5 million since 2007, according to my analysis of Census data. That means fewer U.S. born workers are competing for jobs requiring less education, the kind immigrants generally get. So immigrants are replacing, not displacing U.S. born workers." [Maria E. Enchautegui, PhD, Senior Fellow in the Income and Benefits Policy Center at the Urban Institute]
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/23550/the-ec...mmigration
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