Crimes I've just heard of

[terracore]

Go to the Big Island Thieves facebook group. Your head will spin.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

it's illegal to carry a weapon for self protection outside your property.

So even if the woman in Kopua Farm Lots owned a gun, in this instance it wouldn't have done her any good. If she did own a gun, once the thieves brought her back to her home they would have stolen the gun along with everything else. And then they'd be armed for their next home invasion.

Four people are in a room and seven leave. How many have to enter again before it's empty?

[randomq]

I think there is a simple question to pose to our representatives: Are you going to crack down on these burglaries and violent criminals, or are you going to start granting carry permits that are already allowed by law?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

start granting carry permits that are already allowed by law?

Apparently permits aren't granted because they're not already allowed by law.
And again, in the case of the Kopua Farm Lot robbery, even if the victim had a carry permit there's a good possibility she wouldn't have been walking around her property armed, at her gate. Then the outcome would have been the same whether she owned or didn't own a gun. Except the thieves would now have her gun.
Owning a gun doesn't prevent or solve every problem, at any given moment during the day.

Four people are in a room and seven leave. How many have to enter again before it's empty?

[terracore]

"Owning a gun doesn't prevent or solve every problem, at any given moment during the day."

Seems to work pretty well for criminals. Law abiding citizens, not so much.

[randomq]

Yes, concealed carry is legal here, just not in practice.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Hawaii

Hawaii is a may-issue state.

"In an exceptional case, when an applicant shows reason to fear injury to the applicant's person or property, a license to carry a pistol or revolver (which allows both open and concealed carry) may be granted or denied at the discretion of the county police chief."

With a concealed carry, you likely would have a small handgun in your pocket or concealed holster most of the time. You'd likely never have to draw it, but if someone physically threatened you, you would be prepared to defend yourself. Obviously if you're not willing to defend yourself, you shouldn't carry.

I would love to live in a utopia where no one breaks the social contract, violence and theft are abhorrent to all, there are adequate social and mental health services, and the cops show up in time to stop crimes. But that's not the world we live in today.

[1voyager1]

Police do not protect you.
At best, they can help you get a minor form of revenge by catching the wrongdoer, which doesn't happen very often.
Rarely is your loss returned or compensated for, even if they're caught.
Rarely do they experience more than the inconvenience of being run through the "system" before being turned loose to do it or something similar again and again.

Imprisoning people is expensive.
The state doesn't want to take on any more of that kind of cost than it absolutely has to.
So, most of them are turned loose to continue on as they have been.
The alternative would be to raise taxes to cover the costs.

In a knee-jerk fear reaction to the idea of firearms, the people of this state have given up their right to defend themselves by having some of the most restrictive firearms laws I've ever seen.

The laws covering the transporting of firearms by citizens are ridiculously restrictive.
If you were forced off the road and forced at gun point to surrender your vehicle,
if you had a firearm available to use in your defense,
you would be violating the laws covering the transporting of that firearm, automatically putting you in the wrong if you did use it in your defence.

The use of a firearm to threaten someone is not just a form of coercion.
It is a serious threat to do you bodily harm up to and including killing you.
You should have the right to protect yourself in that situation.

If you want a concealed carry permit, you do have the right to apply for one, but they do not have to issue you one if they do not want to, even if you meet all the legal requirements for having one. The practice in this state is that none are issued to anyone for any reason. The truth of that statement is in the few that may get issued, and to whom they are issued to.

You would think that the violence prone lawbreakers were the ones making the laws in order to protect themselves.

Welcome to Puna, the land of the Vocal Lunatic Fringe.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

if you had a firearm available to use in your defense,...

... nothing would be different.
My dad moved to Dallas a year ago. You can legally carry guns there anytime, anywhere. People are armed to the teeth in a ready, willing, and able gun slingin' utopian paradise. My dad won't watch the news at night because it's nothing but robberies, break ins, shootouts, and general bullet riddled mayhem,

People think more guns in Hawaii would be the solution to lower the crime rate. Look first to states with the most liberal gun laws. It's proven to be utterly ineffective against crime.

The only place I've ever seen where everyone owned a gun and crime was low, is in rural, small town farming areas. But they have guns for hunting and varmints. Not for use against other people.

Four people are in a room and seven leave. How many have to enter again before it's empty?

[Rob Tucker]

All this stuff has been repeated ad nauseum over the years.

It is now ended, again.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator