Must opinions be substantiated? (TMT examples)

[TomK]

Gypsy- you said your questions are rhetorical, so you already have all the answers you want.

[Guest]

KJ,

This one geothermal plant has expanded several times in the past few decades. This PGV power plant has had many releases and blowouts including one during Tropical storm Iselle in 2014. Hundreds of people living near the PGV have complained about a lower quality of life due to the PGV power plant. Many say that Headaches, breathing problems and Cancer rates are higher in the PGV area. Many folks Property values remain lower in the PGV area and The never been seen before ROD started within a mile of the PGV power plant. For decades folks have voiced their opinions and asked for a health study to be done in the surrounding neighborhoods and the PGV area. They are still waiting.Meanwhile, Electricity rates remain higher for lower Puna residents than the majority of the Nation.

KJ, of course you are entitled to your own opinion regarding More or less geothermal. Just so you know, Three more Geothermal power plants may not be what the majority of lower Puna residents need or want. jmo

TomK, you have never answered any of those Electricity related questions. Electricity may not be oil but it is an important island resource. I have mentioned to you that some of the Telescopes on Mauna Kea already need or use millions of dollars of electricity a year. The TMT observatory may use or need two million PLUS worth of electricity.
Instead of down playing or squashing my million dollar claims could you find out and share the true answers to my questions?
Puna county is a very large county, it may even be bigger than the islands of Oahu or Maui. Puna county needs or uses about 6% of the islands current grid power.
Does the astronomy capitol of the world on the summit of Muana kea need or use more electricity than the entire Puna district?

[leilanidude]

TomK, you have never answered any of those Electricity related questions. Electricity may not be oil but it is an important island resource. I have mentioned to you that some of the Telescopes on Mauna Kea already need or use millions of dollars of electricity a year. The TMT observatory may use or need two million PLUS worth of electricity.

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Not only are those statements complete lies, but TomK and others have replied back with facts on this before.

[Guest]

Leilanidude, Top of the morning to you.

Please read question #6 and the answer on this link. $90,000 x 12 May equal more than $1,000,000 a year. jmo

http://www.keckobservatory.org/recent/en...yths_facts

This may be outdated and is only one telescopes monthly electricity bill on Mauna Kea. There are at least a dozen more large telescopes and several large astronomy buildings in both waimea and Hilo all using high volumes of Electricity. The TMT observatory is expected to be one of the biggest telescopes in the world, The electricity needed for the TMT to operate is not free. The more electricity that is needed or being used then the higher the rates will be for the local residents living on the island.
P.S. TomK has avoided answering my questions regarding the mass amounts of electricity being used by the many telescopes. Yet, he has noted paying special attention to the amounts of yearly electricity outages on the summit.
Would an electricity outage on the summit be costly and why?

[leilanidude]

The more electricity that is needed or being used then the higher the rates will be for the local residents living on the island.
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Actually, the reverse would be true.

[Guest]

Leilanidude

Not sure I follow your logic. The demand for electricity usually brings higher rates or costs. For example, summer electricity demands are usually higher than winter and the rates are too.

http://callmepower.com/faq/higher-electr...ces-summer

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/inde...ing_prices

Most of the electricity used by the large telescopes is to keep the temperatures down so the high tech equipment can function better. They may have to keep the temp around or below freezing, this could take blasting several large air conditioners non stop to do. The summer months on Mauna Kea are warmer than the winter months so they may use more electricity during those summer months as well. jmo

[leilanidude]

It costs about the same to run an electric producing facility at half capacity as it does at 90 percent capacity. Hawaii is different than other states in that we do not have access to grid partners that can sell their excess capacity to us. The link about higher electric prices is because when a utility runs out of capacity, they are forced to buy electricity from other producers on the grid, at a higher price.

Geothermal is also a good example as their costs do not rise much at all as they produce more power as opposed to oil burning plants which then burn more oil.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Thank you for your astute observations about electricity gypsy. While we are looking at large users of electricity, let's not forget the mega resorts on the Kona Coast. Thousands of people and every room air conditioned. Many tourists fly here in winter to escape the cold on the mainland, to visit beautiful, warm Hawaii, then stay in an ice cold air conditioned room. What is that all about? Millions of dollars of electricity used no doubt, and wasted. If the tourists wanted cold, they could just stay home.

And let's not forget the resort golf courses, wasting massive amounts of water, fertilizer, and poisonous pesticides. These are some of the most heavily sprayed lands on earth, and should, jmo, have hazardous warning signs at all entry points. Why not keep the land in a more natural state, with native plants that would not require stealing water from the local people, would not require nitrogen fertilizer that seeps into the groundwater and ocean, killing marine life, and does not require extreme use of toxic insecticides, fungicides, and other deadly substances. Why not instead return it to nature, perhaps with a nice walking trail? And if hikers wanted, they could provide balls at the trailhead for people to throw in front of them, then walk over to the ball, pick it up, and throw it again In front of them over and over, until the end of the trail. All natural, without the poison and dead fish, bleached coral and having to destroy lava, turning it into hills and bunkers and traps instead of leaving it the way it was meant to be.

“Facts fall from the poetic observer as ripe seeds.” -Henry Thoreau

[Guest]

HOTPE, good morning to you.

The many Island mega resorts will prosper by the development of the TMT observatory as will the Geothermal power plants.

Many of the Big Island public schools including Pahoa near the PGV continue to operate today without any air conditioning for the Keiki classrooms even though facts are out that cooler conditions leads to better attention spans and Keiki learning.

I truly like your leave it the way it was meant to be theory. Can't do much about the development in KONA that has already happened but Let's try and make sure the summit of Mauna Kea can be seen by future generations the way it was meant to be. jmo

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Can't do much about the development in KONA that has already happened but Let's try and make sure the summit of Mauna Kea can be seen by future generations the way it was meant to be. jmo

By your logic, if we can't do much about the development in Kona, we can't so much about the observatories either, can we? And if the observatories are already there, like the resorts, one more will not substantially change the summit for future generations the way it is. I'm glad we agree, jmo.

“Facts fall from the poetic observer as ripe seeds.” -Henry Thoreau