Special Master recommends Orchidland receivership

[terracore]

"Many people (myself included) do not want, nor can they afford, full pavement."

Agreed. If people are regularly driving 40 on a 15MPH cinder road, I can't imagine how fast they would drive if it was paved.

[Chunkster]

A nicely maintained gravel or cinder road would be nice . . . and enough for me.

[kalakoa]

nicely maintained gravel or cinder

Does not meet the HCC definition of "road", and is therefore not possible with public funds... at the same time, this level of maintenance wouldn't "bankrupt the County".

[Chunkster]

They broke their own laws to establish the subdivisions. One would think they might modify them to mitigate that mistake, but I'm not holding my breath. BTW, they do maintain a number of unpaved roads, but maybe they were grandfathered in?

[DaVinci]

quote:

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Originally posted by kalakoa

nicely maintained gravel or cinder

Does not meet the HCC definition of "road", and is therefore not possible with public funds... at the same time, this level of maintenance wouldn't "bankrupt the County".

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Yes, it would. Harry Kim is correct. Hawaii has a standard for paved as well as gravel roads. By law, the county cannot dedicate a roadway unless it is first raised to the county standard. So step one would be OCLA improving all of the gravel roads to county standards. Step two would be handing them to the county. So we would need hundreds of thousands of dollars invested just to hand them over, then the county would have to spend millions keeping them up to county standard. Apply that to HPP, and all the other subdivisions in Puna (upwards of 700 miles of roadway) and yes, the cost would be prohibitive.

I don’t disagree that the initial subdivision of Orchidland (and HPP, Leilani, Acres, Beaches, etc.) way back in the early 60s was probably illegal but there is no easy way out at this point.

[kalakoa]

step one would be OCLA improving all of the gravel roads to county standards

Most of the private subdivision "roadways" aren't wide enough to ever become "public" roads.

they do maintain a number of unpaved roads, but maybe they were grandfathered in?

County simply ignores its own rules whenever it's convenient (for them).

[randomq]

I'd settle for our fair share of the fuel tax revenue. Haven't heard anything more from Ruggles on that one...

[My 2 cents]

Hawaii has a standard for paved as well as gravel roads.

I tried very hard to find the county standards for unpaved roads. After patiently but persistently riding the pass the buck merry-go-round I was finally told that there are no standards for the county's unpaved or sub-standard roads. If there are standards and you know where to find them, please share. It would be very helpful.

By law, the county cannot dedicate a roadway unless it is first raised to the county standard.

Even if there is such a law I think it is irrelevant since the first action was the county breaking their own laws to put us into this situation. In this case, 2 wrongs WOULD make a right.

step one would be OCLA improving all of the gravel roads to county standards.

Again, not possible because of easement width.

no easy way out at this point.

County officials have thumbed their collective noses at us for decades. "That's YOUR problem, we can't help you with it." I would have no sympathy for them if it became (rightfully) their problem. I will point out however that as private entities we do not qualify for State or Federal grants, but the county does have access to these.

Kalakoa wrote:

Consider: if "everyone" could be united into a common course of action

Good one. I'm still chuckling on that one. Even when they eliminate 40% of the voice/votes, they still can't agree.

[kalakoa]

Bill 37 introduced by Eileen O'hara would have reduced the minimum right-of-way to 40 feet, thereby making most "private" subdivision roads eligible to become streets.

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/WebLink/0...Page1.aspx

Frank De Marco of Public Works opposed this change, citing the lack of "adequate space" for sight distances, drainage structures, roadside clear zones, bicyclist/pedestrian facilities, utilities, etc. He helpfully points out that any roadway servicing more than 6 lots should be designed with a minimum 50-foot right-of-way.

"Based on the need to protect public health and safety, future traffic volume increases, future widening needs that are not currently anticipated but could occur, and the lack of consideration for future land use changes, the DPW does not support proposed Bill 37 as it is currently written."

http://records.co.hawaii.hi.us/WebLink/0...Page1.aspx

O'hara subsequently withdrew the bill.

Fuel tax goes up, County staff all get raises, what exactly are we paying for?

[Chunkster]

O'hara's bill was seen by the anti-PMAR crowd in HPP as a ploy to enable an eventual route through the subdivision. It was seen by the county as a back door way to make them responsible for at least a portion of the substandard private roads they enabled once upon a time. Obviously, it went nowhere.