HB2570: Mandatory Road Dues for all?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

There's something for nearly everyone in the Puna subdivisions to like in it,

Thanks Chunkster,
Excellent analysis of the bill and it's potential.

Recycle Puna. Humans, although probably not you personally, have already left 400,000 pounds of trash on the moon. - YouTube's Half As Interesting

[My 2 cents]

"there is no possible way the county could do worse"

I understand the sentiment, but I'm not sure I agree. They could do a similar job and charge us 4 times as much. The fees being set by the "entities" with no restrictions or limits makes me a bit nervous. The county's past track record makes this aspect of it all the more scary.

[Chunkster]

@ My 2 cents:

I accept the validity of your point of view and am fully aware of the risks. Despite my own deeply held cynicism of the county, I think this is a risk worth taking. Call it desperation, I guess, but I'm at that point.

[VancouverIslander]

quote:

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I have owned property in HPP for 15 years and participated in its elections, meetings, and committees, and I can honestly tell you that there is no possible way the county could do worse than the current and past boards and management of the place. It's time to try something new.

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For HPP this might be true. But for HA (and imho, Eden Roc) it's quite possible for the County to do a much worse job. They could have all of the work done by county employees, which would likely increase the costs significantly.

The problem with this current proposal is that it is a half a solution. Either the county takes over the roads completely or they don't.

Me ka ha`aha`a,
Mike

[kalakoa]

there is no possible way the county could do worse

County already can't maintain the roads it has, even with regular tax increases and hiring of additional staff.

Consider: once the roads are upgraded, property values will increase, resulting in higher taxation even though the improvements were privately funded. Argue that "property taxes don't pay for roads" if you will -- roads are funded by fuel tax revenue, which everyone already pays.

This means you pay fuel tax (for public roads) then pay road dues (for your private roads) then pay County management (to make sure you pay for your private roads) in order to earn the privilege of paying higher property tax.

Not why I moved here. No way I'm moving back to Trump's version of America. How does it go? "New Zealand, Canada, France, your rent unpaid, your ideals in advance"

[Mimosa]

Perhaps this is a good step .
In Fern Forest the MRFS were disposed of via class action law suit .
We are selling our multiple lots in H.A. and moving to Rd 8 where we recently bought 2 side by side lots near E and 8 .
During escrow the HARC and HACA mandatory fee assessment was $100.00 per lot .When we made the purchase in the last 16 months - we pointed out to escrow that the fee is not mandatory and for HARC it is $60.00 per lot and $30.00 for HACA .The escrow did not include this fee in our closing paper work - thus saving $400.00 .
Peter - it is not meant to accuse Sheldon of anything .
We have paid our dues for over 40 years on all our lots.One nephew has given $100.00 towards the up keep of Rd 1 every year .
Rd ONE was paved originally by the left over funds from Army Corps of Engineers from the bridge funds on S.Kulani Rd .
These left over funds were supposed to be given back to the Govt but were diverted ( ILLEGALLY ) to do the original paving by Isemoto on Rd ONE.
Peter - one nephew now deceased voted for the MRFS when HACA / HARC were one organization . As you may recall the state Land Court dismissed the suit in essence by saying HACA could not sue it's own membership by using the lot owners paying dues money to sue its own lot owners. What the State Land Court did say that if a number of individual lot owners petitioned the State Land Court - the State Land Court would take it into consideration .
The Rd lot itself being 40ft wide needs to be brought up to county standards of 60Ft wide or state standards of 80 Ft wide .
Both phone poles and power poles will need to be moved back in to the 5ft utility easement and in 1980 the cost was One Million dollars per mile. It is not just a H.A. issue -it is a state wide issue .
Yes Rd ONE has had its life span beat to death.
Maybe a toll gate be put in and hire armed security to collect the fees 24/7 /365 till enough funds are collected to double wide pave Rd 1 and access the drainage issues .
The Rd lot itself is owned by a silent trust in Japan and pays no taxes on this Rd lot.HARC is collecting fees for something it does not own - nor do we as lot owners own.
We are old now - not many more sunrises left in our sunset years.
Peter - do you pay your HACA and HARC dues yearly on all your lots?
Mrs.Mimosa

[lquade]

mrs. mimosa. i don't think there is anything in the bill about bringing the road up to county standards or to take land for 60 feet. everything i read in the bill, it remains private roads. that said it is interesting about the private trust, i tried a few times to follow up on that with no luck. it is interesting that our deeds say we each own 1/4009 of road lot but county records say different. another interesting thing is i don't see that the county pays their road dues and they own a few lots in HA. Maybe they do under a name i don't recognize it, as in the trust. it will be interesting and i know it is going to cost way more than the $60 harc dues, but soon people won't be getting to their homes as things get worse and worse. i was sad that i didn't see any testimony from our council people, maybe they were afraid to buck harry. but something has to be done, sooner rather than later...

[TomK]

Oink,

https://law.justia.com/cases/hawaii/supr...699-2.html

[Mimosa]

lquade - Correct - The county does NOT pay the road dues so they are not members of good standing .They do however maintain Rd 8 by mowing and haphazardly filling potholes but Rd 8 is falling apart almost as rapidly as Rd 1 - 10 years ago .
The county also accepts liability on Rd 8 in case of accidents .
It is only a matter of time before the road lot will be widened to either county standards ( 60 feet width ) or state standards of (80 ft width ) .
The county will not touch any sub standard subdivision roads under the 60ft minimum although the P.E.A.R. was illegal and set precedent .
Several years ago a lava tube collapsed on Rd D between 6 and 7.
We approached the HARC board to pay for the entire repair from our own pockets and were told by the couple in charge to leave it alone as it is a state matter .They did say off the record that if we gave them the 25K in cash they would repair it themselves .We asked for this in writing and the couple in charge refused .To this day the puka is getting bigger and bigger.
The monies diverted after the S.Kulani Bridge was built still need to be paid back with interest after almost 50 years.
About the road lot ( Lot 6213 } is in the name of NISHIMURA MITSUSHI Trustee in Japan . Tropic Estates is still owned by the silent trust in Japan.
The fact that our deeds say we all own a portion of this road lot is just a technicality so the silent trust is not responsible for any maintenance or liability .
Originally the sub division was both Fern Acres and the then Tropic Estates but the State Land Court basically said way to big .Thus in haste the two subdivisions were born.
Mrs.Mimosa

[oink]

Thanks TomK.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.