Hawaii Space Base

[ericlp]

I'm sure a local would find some rocks belonging to a hawaiian grave site..... Shut down the billion dollar project for a 5-10 years...until they pack it up and leave... Just more money that is badly needed on this island ... Gone for good.

[TomK]

On the technical side, I don't think the idea is for a space elevator as that really only works for putting things into geosynchronous orbit plus we're not close enough to the equator for the idea to work. They're talking about launching satellites into low earth orbit. I see it more of a system that flings things into orbit - very clever if so, but I can see how you might be able to do that. You could use a space elevator to put something into low earth orbit, but you'd require a propulsion device to do so which doesn't fit in with the idea the satellites would be microwave-sized.

On the other hand, yes, I agree with others. It won't happen here which would be a real shame.

[PaulW]

From wikipedia: "A space elevator is conceived as a cable fixed to the equator and reaching into space. A counterweight at the upper end keeps the center of mass well above geostationary orbit level."

Geostationary orbit level is something like 20,000 miles! If I'm not mistaken. How could this even be contemplated.

Anyway, that wasn't planned for here. I'll have to search for some sort of video or explanation how this spinning would work.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

putting things into geosynchronous orbit

TomK,
The top of a space elevator would by necessity need to be at geosynchronous orbit so the elevator would remain in a fixed position as the earth rotated. Do you know whether there is a way an orbiting spacecraft could dock with the space elevator at any point lower than 22,000 miles above the earth? Or would the speed of the spacecraft need to be so reduced to match the elevator at a lower orbit, that the spacecraft would lose altitude and return to earth?

Recycle Puna. Humans, although probably not you personally, have already left 400,000 pounds of trash on the moon. - YouTube's Half As Interesting

[TomK]

HOTPE - you get it. I'm going to reverse your question, but the answer applies both ways.

If you have a space elevator and want to launch something into low earth orbit (LEO), then you have the choice of launching it from the elevator in LEO or moving it higher and then manoeuvring into LEO. Both require some method of propulsion. Simply moving something up the elevator to LEO will result in the object falling straight back to Earth as it won't have the velocity to remain in LEO. Launching it from higher up requires the same thing. I'll do the math if you want, but you still need some sort propulsion to either speed the satellite up or slow it down, and then adjust its actual orbit.

Flinging something into LEO with just the right velocity to get into that orbit is a way to get around that. The satellite will still need some sort of propulsion to adjust its orbit by small amounts, basically thrusters, but won't need rocket engines to do so.

I don't know if you ever watched the movie "Gravity". The CGI effects were great and the premise of the "Kessler effect" is real, i.e., a collision between satellites could cascade as debris is thrown into all sorts of orbits colliding with other satellites, but the rest of the movie with an astronaut moving between orbits was nonsense. You need a lot of energy to do that plus the space around the Earth is larger than most people realize. You need an awful lot of energy to move between geosynchronous orbit and LEO, and vice versa - even for a microwave oven!

[Kapoho Joe]

quote:

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Originally posted by Obie

The people living in Ka'u have long opposed any development.

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Some poor sap bought Pohue Bay for $20 Million and is just realizing that there is no appetite for a resort in Ka'u!

[Anxious Messiah]

Not going to happen.

_________________________________________
Don't speak unless you can improve on the silence.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

If they sited the launch facility at the old Pahala Mill, and designed the launch vehicles to look like cane haul trucks they might get away with it.

Same with resorts. Sheath large newly built structures with corrugated metal siding:
"Welcome to Pahala Mill Resort - - An Authentic Plantation Experience!"

It's funny how Ka'u residents had no problem with a giant corporation operating on an industrial scale, one that polluted the land with chemicals, plastic, etc, burned cane creating tons of smoke particulates that residents breathed in, along with associated burning chemicals, plastic, cane spiders out in the fields...

And all that was perfectly acceptable, because why?


EDITED TO ADD:
Most likely residents did not breathe burning cane spider fumes. I apologize for the emotional exaggeration of the facts. The cane spiders, as well as rats and mongoose, most likely escaped the burning fields and sought refuge around, under and in residents homes. Here's another example of the kind of good neighbor business that seems to be acceptable, and preferable to just about any idea suggested that would offer jobs to people living in the district. Pages and pages itemized with the chemicals left behind in the soil after the mills closed:
http://www.hawaiidoh.org/references/HDOH%202011d.pdf

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Update on the project March 31st:

But some Big Island residents who lived near the proposed area (satellite launching facility) opposed another space-aimed project.
After community opposition, a Senate committee changed the wording of a special revenue bond that would've allowed the project to be built there.

So that's the end of that.

If you want to combine the dual pleasures of insanity and social acceptance, religion is your only choice. - Last Aphorisms

[TomK]

Got a source for that?