School Walkouts

[MarkD]

Since this discussion is regularly touching on the AR-15, I am posting another N.Y. Times article, relating to the difference in bullet impacts. Several posters argued that since a rapidly firing handgun can send out almost as many bullets as an AR-15, concerns about the rifle are misplaced. Excerpts:

Warning: Gruesome Text

"Perhaps no one knows the devastating wounds inflicted by assault-style rifles better than the trauma surgeons who struggle to repair them.

(Dr. Cannon What makes injuries from these rifles so deadly, he said, is that the bullets travel so fast. Those from an M16 or AR-15 can depart the muzzle at a velocity of more than 3,000 feet per second, while bullets from many common handguns move at less than half or a third that speed...

The AR-15...shoots lightweight, high-speed bullets that can cause grievous bone and soft tissue wounds, in part by turning sideways, or “yawing,” when they hit a person.

Dr. Kerby will never forget the first victim of a high velocity bullet wound he treated...There was just a tiny hole where the bullet went in. Then he looked where the bullet had exited. The man’s inner thigh, he said, “was completely blown out...."

The tissue destruction is almost unimaginable. Bones are exploded, soft tissue is absolutely destroyed. The injuries to the chest or abdomen — it’s like a bomb went off....You will see multiple organs shattered. The exit wounds can be a foot wide....

(People who survive) can need a dozen surgeries over months..."

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/healt...-ar15.html

[Kapoho Joe]

https://everytownresearch.org/firearm-te...ocabulary/

[MarkD]

Is this link a rebuttal to the N.Y. Times article or some minor point regarding terminology?

[MarkP]

How is this different from say a 30.06 bolt action hunting rifle? From what I can tell based on my own rudimentary knowledge and what I glean from the internet they both shoot around the same speed but the 30.06 bullet is about 3 times the weight so has 3 times the energy. All else being equal the wound from a 30.06 would be 3 times as bad. All this talk of how bad the AR15 is reminds me of headlines of pit bulls having the bite strength of a lion whereas in reality nobody really measures such things so ya know, bulls**t. Not that pit bulls and AR15s aren't problems, just not for the reasons normally bandied about. In both pit bulls and AR15s some part of the problem is that problem people seek them out because of a general image they have been associated with.

For the record I think that weapons clearly designed to maintain a very high rate of fire should be restricted. Nobody has ever truly needed to expend hundreds of rounds in a few minutes protecting sheep from coyotes.

[MarkD]

I am not qualified to debate the matter. The N.Y. Times article is pretty indepth, and the surgeons seem to know what they are talking about.

I was in the Army ages ago and remember being told how military bullets were specifically designed to tumble after entering flesh to maximize injury. If that is a requirement for hunting game, OK.

- - - -

One sentiment by some Punatalk gun proponents has considerable merit: that the total of 500 deaths on school campuses in 200 years is a small number in perspective and does not warrant extreme measures to protect schools from shooters. Quite correct.

The other day the local news reported on a machete killing at a Maui shopping center. Commentators clamored for more security guards. We’re getting this every day now: People demanding more security at every mall, store, hotel, school and park. For these highly isolated events?? What nonsense.

Worried about public safety in Hawaii? Lobby for stiffer traffic regulations; auto accidents are a much more pressing danger.

This said, PaulW’s citation of 300 shootings in U.S. every day is a critical fact warranting concern. This and other statistics strongly argue for tightening our nation’s gun laws.

Schoolchildren, our new generation, can play a key role enacting stricter gun laws in coming decades. If they want to send a message, fine.

But we don’t need hysteria on school campuses nationwide about shooters lurking around every corner and assertions that millions need to be spent on guards, bulletproof windows and school safe rooms. We can't protect everywhere.

[Kapoho Joe]

Hawaii cannot even put A/C in every classroom, we won't be seeing bulletproof windows anytime soon!

[PaulW]

"But we don’t need hysteria on school campuses nationwide about shooters lurking around every corner and assertions that millions need to be spent on guards, bulletproof windows and school safe rooms. We can't protect everywhere."

Quite right. Instead of trying to protect everywhere against guns, we should remove the guns instead - starting with the ones capable of creating mass murder.

[PaulW]

"500 deaths on school campuses in 200 years"

Another one! What a bogus statistic. How about 26 deaths in 90 days (2018 YTD), does that get your attention?
How many entirely preventable deaths of schoolchildren is acceptable to you? Please, pick a number. KJ won't.

[leilanidude]

This said, PaulW’s citation of 300 shootings in U.S. every day is a critical fact warranting concern. This and other statistics strongly argue for tightening our nation’s gun laws.
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Maryland has some very restrictive laws on handguns including concealed carry and purchases and background checks. More laws are just not the answer.

[kalakoa]

More laws are just not the answer.

Austin Bomber bought his materiel at Home Depot and didn't have any special training in explosives manufacture. What laws should have applied here?

a machete killing at a Maui shopping center

Shop the Amazon Virtual Mall with a VR headset, that way you never have to leave the house and possibly find death. Retail mostly sucks anyway, no big loss.