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How about this fact:
Climate warming is expected to result in rising sea level. Should this occur, coastal cities, ports, and wetlands would be threatened with more frequent flooding, increased beach erosion, and saltwater encroachment into coastal streams and aquifers. Global sea level has fluctuated widely in the recent geologic past. It stood 4-6 meters above the present during the last interglacial period, 125,000 years ago, but was 120 m lower at the peak of the last ice age, around 20,000 years ago. A study of past sea level fluctuations provides a longer-term geologic context, which can help us better anticipate future trends.
More :
https://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/
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How about this fact:
How 'bout that fact? It is great all by its lonesome. Isn't it? But coupled with human caused CO2 emissions and their parallel with the onset and rise of the industrial revolution, and that to the ever growing population and the greater desire to have what the best of us have by the billions who are rising out of their third world limitations with hopes of having their very own.. and we are forcing the environment to change at a highly accelerated pace. One that doesn't abide the complacency your little ol' lonesome fact might suggest.
In fact, I might add, one would be well served to ask what is the mechanism when the poles melt? What is the way in which the water is redistributed? What does that look like when it is set in motion and accelerates beyond what nature's record shows because of additional, until now, unseen factors? What happens when all the water held in ice on Antarctica is suddenly, catastrophically, released as liquid into the oceans of the world? What cascade of events are triggered that might, just might, have an effect on you? On all of us?
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You guys are ignoring our island's acute shortage of plastic. Making more single use bottles here would bring us up to the levels of other vacation destinations; like Detroit, for instance.
Plastic waste just isn't a problem; you take it to the transfer station...it disappears. No problem.
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"How 'bout that fact?"
You are ignoring the fact that the sea levels rose about 18 feet above the current level without any help from mankind and that is happening again.
Even if our carbon emissions are accelerating the process, it was still going to happen. 10,000 years ago much of my home state of Ohio was covered with an ice sheet a mile thick.
Did early man cause that to melt with their steel mills ???
quote:
Originally posted by glinda
How about this fact:
How 'bout that fact? It is great all by its lonesome. Isn't it? But coupled with human caused CO2 emissions and their parallel with the onset and rise of the industrial revolution, and that to the ever growing population and the greater desire to have what the best of us have by the billions who are rising out of their third world limitations with hopes of having their very own.. and we are forcing the environment to change at a highly accelerated pace. One that doesn't abide the complacency your little ol' lonesome fact might suggest.
In fact, I might add, one would be well served to ask what is the mechanism when the poles melt? What is the way in which the water is redistributed? What does that look like when it is set in motion and accelerates beyond what nature's record shows because of additional, until now, unseen factors? What happens when all the water held in ice on Antarctica is suddenly, catastrophically, released as liquid into the oceans of the world? What cascade of events are triggered that might, just might, have an effect on you? On all of us?
When the ice at the north end of the earth melts, nothing happens. Ice shrinks as it melts, with no net change in water level. That ice is floating on the ocean. Don't you remember when the USS Nautilus surfaced through the ice at the North Pole?
If the south melts, you'll have the same effect that it had every other time it melted. As I said, the climate changes all by itself, and these doom-and-gloom, Chicken Little, The Sky is Falling ruminations are pointless. It if happens, it happens, and you deal with it then. If it rises an extra foot or two than it would have otherwise, oh well. OMG, it rose 19' instead of 18'...run for the hills!!!
Another thing, your side keeps equating CO2 with temp. rise, when water vapor is the chief greenhouse gas, not CO2.
You always cry wolf, but never offer any suggestions.
Speaking Truth to Lies / Facts to Ignorance
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Wasting my time, here, but:
When the ice at the north end of the earth melts, nothing happens.
Not true. There are many related side effects that have nothing to do with effective volume, such as the ocean currents that help regulate global temperature.
equating CO2 with temp. rise
Ignore the body of relevant science for a moment and consider the source of that CO2: it comes from burning things to make heat (which heat might then be converted to other forms, such as electricity or motion). Not all of that heat radiates into space.
OMG, it rose 19' instead of 18'...run for the hills!!!
Consider how many critical resources are within that first 20' of sea level rise. Harbors, docks, airports. The rebuilding/relocation cost will be enough to bankrupt some nations, especially the so-called "first-world" ones who let their huge corporations and ultra-wealthy individuals play accounting games to avoid paying the very taxes that would provide revenue for these things.
I'm starting to look at the upcoming decades this way:
1. How long until Hawaii becomes unlivable?
2. Where can I go after that?
3. Will I even live that long? If not, why do I even care?
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quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
Wasting my time, here, but:
OMG, it rose 19' instead of 18'...run for the hills!!!
Consider how many critical resources are within that first 20' of sea level rise.
Once again, do you trust NOAA to tell you Sea Level is rising by 6 inches a CENTURY?
In 4,000 years it will rise 20 feet.
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltren...id=1612340
quote:
Originally posted by kalakoa
I'm starting to look at the upcoming decades this way:
1. How long until Hawaii becomes unlivable?
2. Where can I go after that?
3. Will I even live that long? If not, why do I even care?
Item 1:
OMG, are you serious. I am serious when I ask, are you serious?
You will go to your grave, your children and grandchildren will go to their graves, all after long and unhappy lives spent worrying about the sky falling, with neither the sky falling or the ocean rising noticeably/significantly/meaningfully.
This debate has gone from theoretical self-flagellation, to outright insanity.
Item 2: I'll pass on this one.
Item 3: Neither you or I or anyone alive now or in the next 1,000 years or more will be affected by either the sky falling or ocean rising with the possible exception of a few rich people who built houses on the very edge of the ocean. However, I suspect that natural erosion will have a hugely more-significant effect to those structures than any ocean-level rise.
No doubt, however, there will be more doom-and-gloomers at that time proffering dire predictions about a great flood being just around the corner and where will they go when Hawaii becomes unlivable.
For the record, I re-affirm my absolute support of the water-bottling project, and hope it brings an economic boost to your part of Hawaii. If they can offer bio-degradable bottles, that would be an added bonus.
Speaking Truth to Lies / Facts to Ignorance
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do you trust NOAA to tell you Sea Level is rising by 6 inches a CENTURY?
Historical data. NOAA doesn't know what will happen in the next decade.
Neither you or I or anyone alive now or in the next 1,000 years or more will be affected by either the sky falling or ocean rising
That statement is perhaps true in the literal sense, but climate change is affecting far more than ocean levels.
Before anyone says "climate change is a natural phenomena", consider the overall rate of change. The effects will come sooner than we are prepared to deal with them.
As I noted earlier, this argument is a waste of time. Thread topic is "proposed water bottling plant". In the near term, this means jobs and economic opportunity to be had (or not).
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