Hawaiians angry--again: Dirt skiers on MK

[Rob Tucker]

I have decided that, like Gary Larson, it is time to retire Open-d. My intention for the last fifteen years has been for Punaweb be a place for Puna to understand itself for better or worse. Not intended to be a forum for some ignorant mid Atlantic stroker to admire himself. So say good bye to Open-d.

But I do wish Gary Larsen would come back.

Assume the best and ask questions.

Punaweb moderator

[Chas]

Bye. I started ignoring him after my first exchange. Glad he won’t be cluttering up the discussion anymore.

[MarkD]

kalakoa: "The Hawaiians" have more rights than most. They are not prosecuted for their illegal activities on State Conservation land ("aloha" checkpoint, TMT "occupation"). Vacant DHHL lands aren't taxable by County. There's others, but nobody really cares."

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True. And some of these items are OK.

But in sum there is too much catering--and kowtowing--to Hawaiians' complaints going on.

[glinda]

But in sum there is too much catering--and kowtowing--to Hawaiians' complaints going on.

I think all involved like the dynamic as it is. As with the Hawaiian convention and all the humbug with it, the courts and the division among the Hawaiians themselves, there's some comfort in the status quo. Rather than making choices and taking definitive steps to solidify a solution, having everything up in the air serves to push the whole affair further down the road.

For those that promote a homogonous outcome, which I believe is what lies in the spirit of America, it's a great construct. Time and natural attractions will eventually erase cultural diversity, at least to a degree to make the issues we wrestle with today not as significant. One would think either party would like to have resolution and move on, but therein lie dangers, whether real or imagined, that keeps all in fear of such a commitment. Though I doubt anyone would admit it, and I will certainly not live to see the day, I figure the whole issue will keep drifting into the future until it fades away..

[MarkD]

Glinda: " Time and natural attractions will eventually erase cultural diversity, at least to a degree to make the issues we wrestle with today not as significant."

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Quite the provocative proposition. I think it's true, but is everyone open to seeing this? A lot of groups and cultures have pride in their identity, so to speak.

I can see white power people, tribal peoples, and other groups all wanting to preserve their orientation. Interesting topic....

[My 2 cents]

"If a Hawaiian tells me that Mauna Kea is sacred to them that causes me no concerns. I can respect that."

Agreed, but shouldn't they tell you before, and not after the fact? If the skiers had broken any laws or ignored any signs then I would say they were being disrespectful and should be "held accountable". Please tell me how they could have possibly known that what they were doing was wrong.

I have skied Mauna Kea several times and there were times when I had to use my "rock skis" because the snow cover was marginal. And I definitely hit rocks and bare spots. After living most of my life here, only now do I find out that what I was doing could be considered disrespectful. I respectfully disagree because I feel that intent is the main ingredient.

The outrage is being misplaced. Instead of chastising the skiers for what they had no way of knowing I think the effort should be toward correcting the situation. Whatever that means.

[Rob Tucker]

"Please tell me how they could have possibly known that what they were doing was wrong."

Well, they appear to have gotten away with it. They're gone. And it is true there was not a sign up there on the mountain saying 'it is illegal to be incredibly stupid'. It isn't illegal to be stupid and there is always someone looking for some loophole to exploit.

In my opinion, setting aside Hawaiian feelings of religious affinity for the mountain, skiing at high speed down a cheese grater is extremely dangerous. Darn lucky they didn't end up in Hilo's ER... likely at taxpayer expense. Being extreme skiers they unfortunately made it look easy. God help the amateur or intermediate skier that attempts the same thing.

In my opinion, setting aside Hawaiian feelings of religious affinity for the mountain, what they were doing was essentially a form of off roading. Yahoo off roading leaves trails and visual damage which is durable. I've seen it in American deserts where ten year olds (literally and figuratively) leave their rather ugly marks on the landscape. Those lava surfaces are durable. Snow is ephemeral. It is also considerably easier on the body than a`a.

Then there is the fact that thoughtlessly they offended a portion of the host culture. Being offensive is not illegal.... it is offensive.

Now maybe an argument can be made that there is no law on the books saying painting your children head to toe in lead paint is illegal and therefore it's okay. A certain degree of common sense should come into play. But this reminds us of why there are so many laws. They are a reaction to something harmful or stupid.

So I align with the Hawaiians expressing offense for a different set of reasons not excluding religious sensibilities.

Their video should carry a common disclaimer: Do not attempt this at home. And I think home, by implication, should also mean at someone else's home.

[Chunkster]

Some people find the concept of a "host culture" to be offensive. It's like the rest of us are poorly tolerated guests and don't really belong here. This is a multicultural state in an increasingly multicultural country, and the defacto endowment one of those cultures with more rights than the others isn't a good idea.

Having said that, I do think the dirt skiiers were wrong for safety and environmental reasons.

[randomq]

The use of the term "host culture" is offensive. We are not guests here, this is our home.

[kalakoa]

Some hosts are more cultured than others.