02-08-2019, 01:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge
David Malo wrote “Hawaiian Antiquities” on Hawaiian culture and religion in the mid 1800’s.
Downloading now. Thanks HotPE!
Cheers,
Kirt
Hawaiian Religion
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02-08-2019, 01:15 PM
quote: Downloading now. Thanks HotPE! Cheers, Kirt
02-08-2019, 01:22 PM
quote: Thanks. I will look into it. Cheers, Kirt
02-08-2019, 02:13 PM
First.. I am a haole, what could I actually know? But..
There's a lot of barriers to a haole version of an answer for your question. Hawaiians traditionally pass on knowledge verbally, and, most importantly are pretty protective of their stories. It is as if information is power and nobody is sharing out of fear of having their's diminished. Another issue is the lack of any centralized single identity verses a more per clan/ohana version of tradition and family practices. And, more importantly, the fact that the Hawaiians are made up of multiple waves of immigrants that came from different cultures/islands in the Pacific over time. As such, what is true for folks from Puna will not necessarily be the same for a family from Kohala. And, much more diversity, I believe, can be found between different islands. All told I suspect our desire to put all Hawaiians into one group wouldn't be fair to them. There is one publication, written by Hawaiians, and from their Alii class, ie the rulers of the later wave of settlers that brought the Alii/Kahuna system and imposed it on earlier settlers, called the Kumulipo, that many adhere to as their creation chant. One version of this can be read here: http://www.ulukau.org/elib/cgi-bin/libra...0escapewin&a=d&d=D0&toc=0 Note that this link is to the Hawaiian Electronic Library. I suspect you will find a lot more material to review by further poking around that site. I think your's is a great question, and hope this discussion will remain respectful so we all can learn from it.
02-08-2019, 02:40 PM
Good post Glinda.
All the the suggestions will be very interesting to read. But western observations will be less than accurate due to the fact that the are western views. One thing here I find noteworthy is that the Hawaiian back story is not in fact that long ago. Not ancient history at all. It continues to this day and continues to be an embarrassment. The Hawaiian people are still being taken advantage of systematically.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
02-08-2019, 02:51 PM
quote: I agree there must be bias. Where can I find non-western views? glinda foreshadows that there can be no valid synopsis of these non-western views. If so, and it may well be so, I am not sure that there is any point to this thread. Cheers, Kirt
02-08-2019, 03:24 PM
I am told UH Hilo has a lot of stuff. But, as I suggested earlier, to get close to the source you should seek out Hawaiian practitioners. Probably not hard to find. It has been my experience that a westerner sincerely interested will be well received.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
02-08-2019, 03:59 PM
seek out Hawaiian practitioners.
The Merrie Monarch Festival is from Sun, Apr 21, 2019 – Sat, Apr 27, 2019. Many of the hula chants are from the oral tradition, dating farther back than written histories. Some of the dancers and kumu are also cultural practitioners. The craft fairs have some serious artisans and traditional crafts workers (wood, feathers, etc) among the modern handicrafts. This may be your best opportunity for meeting practitioners while they’re gathered in Hilo from all over the state, in a festive atmosphere, already intent on sharing their culture (and traditional religion?) with the world.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
02-08-2019, 04:12 PM
As Rob points out, history is the providence of the teller. It is said the Hawaiians embraced their written language once it was given to them and many publication in Hawaiian sprung up in the early days of the Kingdom. But, no mater, the history most of us know is the one told by the english language publications of the day.
The site I referenced in my earlier post, the Hawaiian Electronic Library, at http://ulukau.org/ Is a pretty good stash of Hawaiian material in both Hawaiian and English. A few publications that might shed some light on the subject are: Hawaiian mythology: http://ulukau.org/elib/cgi-bin/library?e...1escapewin&a=d&p2=book Ho'oulu: our time of becoming: Hawaiian epistemology and early writings: http://ulukau.org/elib/cgi-bin/library?e...1escapewin&a=d&p2=book Nana i ke kumu (Look to the source). Vol. I: http://ulukau.org/elib/cgi-bin/library?e...1escapewin&p=frameset&toc=0&d=D0.3.1 Song of Eternity: http://ulukau.org/elib/cgi-bin/library?e...1escapewin&p=frameset&toc=0&d=D0.3.1 Unwritten literature of Hawaii: the sacred songs of the hula: http://ulukau.org/elib/cgi-bin/library?e...1escapewin&a=d&d=D0.3&toc=0 I am sure there are plenty more, but that should serve to get you stated. For me, this is a life long line of inquiry. One I can not expect to ever conclude or wholly understand. But it is a source of great enrichment and as been the cause of many a great relationship. As Rob suggests, reach out to the people who's story this is. They really are a wonderful, and very wise in may ways, people. IMO we all are better because they are a part of our lives.
02-08-2019, 04:31 PM
It's worth noting that some traditions and beliefs held strongly by a culture or people are not necessarily linked to religion, defining that as involving as a superior being.
Burial traditions is a big one. Sacred ground, not because of a deity, but respect for the deceased. There is good cause to always respect burial grounds. Environmentalism, though a broad, subjective concept, is another one. Reverence for natural sites and, held by many native Americans, the importance of treating with respect the animals harvested for food (even though they are killed).
02-10-2019, 02:41 PM
knieft - Almost reminds me of Russell’s Teapot.
Could probably find that teapot with a big enough telescope... say 30m or so? Religion is out there |
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