Another take on TMT - Aggrieved native Hawaiians

[BillyB]

"If Earth is ever endangered by an asteroid strike"

Oh no, now we will have asteroid proofing added to the building code. Simpson armor plating?

[TomK]

quote:

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Originally posted by HereOnThePrimalEdge

OHA - We stick our hand into everything...

And funny - - how audits and investigations show a little bit of everything sticks to their hands.

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Interesting comment given this article that arrived in my inbox this evening:

https://www.thegardenisland.com/2019/04/...rt-action/

"Over time, however, it became increasingly evident that the LLCs were being run like fiefdoms accountable to no one. The State Auditor’s Report No. 18-03 brought to light concerns about spending irregularities, for example, including finding several occasions in which OHA’s CEO funded sponsorships contrary to board-adopted guidelines and staff recommendations."

[...]

"But now the noose is closing around the LLCs from several different angles, threatening to end the fiefdom and the shroud of secrecy surrounding it.

On March 29, Circuit Judge Crabtree entered a minute order in Walden’s case ruling that the LLCs cannot avoid the public records laws. The final order hasn’t been entered yet, but the direction in which the judge is heading appears clear."

[TomK]

Nice letter in the Trib today written by Tom Geballe regarding the observatories on MK and the TMT. Tom was my boss for a number of years at UKIRT and responsible for bringing me out to Hawaii.

https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/201...r-may-8-5/

"Mr. Belsky and Ms. Akaka are correct in stating that the Event Horizon Telescope, actually a group of telescopes stretching around the globe, was able to image a supermassive black hole in a distant galaxy without the TMT. But they are incorrect in suggesting that this shows the TMT is not needed and that existing telescopes will suffice."

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Thanks TomK for posting the link to the letter from Tom Geballe. I looked up the letter he was responding to and found this comment:

Congratulations to those who took the pictures of “Powehi,” the black hole some 54 million light years from Earth — and they did it without a Thirty Meter Telescope!
https://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/201...y-6-5/amp/

I’m not sure if I followed the train of thought expressed by Tomas Belsky and Moanike’ala Akaka all the way through the switching yard, which also included comments about other large telescopes, space based telescopes, “diabolical” Moon observatories, Kingdom of Hawaii law enforcement, and designating Pohakuloa as Home of the International Olympics, a modern Athens, but I tried. I really tried.

The implication if I understand them correctly is the TMT as well as the other existing telescopes on Mauna Kea are unnecessary as newer, bigger observatories will soon conduct similar research elsewhere. Yet, they congratulate those who created the image of the black hole, with the essential contributions of two observatories on Mauna Kea.

If Tomas Belsky and Moanike’ala Akaka believe a moon observatory can replace the TMT by the early 2020’s I have some rare craters in the Sea of Tranquillity I’d like to offer them at a very reasonable price.

[PaulW]

I see. If a laboratory is making ground-breaking discoveries in chemistry and medicine, then there is no need to build any more and/or better laboratories. Wonderful logic.

Is it just me or are the anti-telescope people mainly represented by the mildly unhinged? Any coherent anti-telescope people out there willing to state their case? To save time, let me remind you that no, the $1.4B can't be spent on your pet project instead, that's not how this works!

[TomK]

Paul,

"If a laboratory is making ground-breaking discoveries in chemistry and medicine, then there is no need to build any more and/or better laboratories."

I think a better analogy would be if a laboratory was making ground-breaking discoveries in a cure for cancer, then there's no need for laboratories that make discoveries in heart, Parkinson's or Alzheimer's disease.

[TomK]

HOTPE - I also read Belsky and Akaka's letter. I don't understand it either.

"To understand the need for a TMT, we should know that it is a Quixotic quest to romance The Singularity, that enigmatic mystery moment that triggered the Big Bang theory some 13 billion years ago. Star-gazers have wrestled with this baby since Day One. How humanity will survive without new information on this philosophical conundrum is anybody’s guess."

It's anyone's guess as to what this paragraph means. I can't make heads nor tail of it. It's a wild menagerie of words that mean nothing. What's day one or romancing the singularity? The observations have nothing to do with the big bang.

"It is mistaken to think that no TMT would relegate Hawaii to a second-rate astronomy research center. The technology behind space exploration is in its infancy; larger telescopes are already being built, and Hubble-type satellites, as well as our (Earth’s) moon, are being surveyed for research and some, perhaps diabolical, purposes."

Let's be clear: one larger telescope is being built in Chile. I do not believe "Hubble-type satellites" are being surveyed and although the moon would be a fantastic place to build an observatory, it's not something that'll happen in the near future. That applies whether they are diabolical or not. I do try and keep up with the latest in astrophysical developments but have yet to see a proposal for diabolical telescopes; here on Earth, in orbit or on the moon.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

have yet to see a proposal for diabolical telescope

It could be super top secret. Perhaps some new kind of radio antenna which combines an electric or magnetic dipole with a parabolic dish? Di-abolic-al? Positive and negative? Good and evil? Whatever it is, let’s get it built, as now I’m itching for a Quixotic quest to romance The Singularity.

[TomK]

I really have no answer to that. I hope David Lassner doesn't see your comment. The MK observatories might be in for a wild ride if he does.

[kimo wires]

The fight is in the wrong place.

https://vimeo.com/94598875?ref=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR16TBE5Ihvl3u9ou0hc8uXeZrC9mS8Wt4BHZIwftWOvs59jT_4luPwMwps