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1893 is the year the Hawaiian monarchy was overthrown and is often noted as the date when Hawaiians lost sovereignty, self determination, their religion and culture.
But what about 1819? I'll copy this from Wiki:
Kamehameha the Great died in 1819. In the aftermath, two of his wives, Kaahumanu and Kepolani, then the two most powerful people in the kingdom, conferred with the kahuna nui, Hewahewa. They convinced young Liholiho, Kamehameha II, to overthrow the kapu system. They ordered the people to burn the wooden statues and tear down the rock temples.
Missionaries arrived in 1820, and most of the alii converted to Christianity, including Kaahumanu and Kepolani, but it took 11 years for Kaahumanu to proclaim laws against ancient religious practices. "Worshipping of idols such as sticks, stones, sharks, dead bones, ancient gods and all untrue gods is prohibited. There is one God alone, Jehovah. He is the God to worship. The hula is forbidden, the chant (olioli), the song of pleasure (mele), foul speech, and bathing by women in public places. The planting of awa is prohibited. Neither chiefs nor commoners are to drink awa."
The Hawaiian monarchy banned Hawaiian cultural and religious practices. Not the businessmen, not territorial governments, and not any telescopes.
Question: If the Hawaiian monarchy outlawed their own religion and culture, isn't that an act of self determination? Isn't it a large factor in bringing us to where we are today? Why is it rarely mentioned?
edited for okina markings
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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The answer is very simple: when you treat people like victims for decades and throw tons of money at them, life is too easy without challenges which ultimately leads to minimal character building. We are witnessing group induced self-serving behaviors bordering pathology. Statistics tells us when people inherit large sums of money by the age of 21 the probability of addictive self-destructive behaviors greatly increase.
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Lost sovereignty as a Nation. A recognized nation. A nation that was recognized before Japan.
A nation that was recognized before any other non-european nation not named the US.
I swear you guys do little to no research and then base your all your arguments on false premises.
Just admit you're an ignorant bigot and be done with it.
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Wow, I thought Kaimana would at least tackle the questions raised by HOTPE. Just calling everyone a naive bigot doesn't really lend much credibility to your views.
Seems like a mention of Kalakaua and the partial restoration of cultural practices beginning in 1874 should be mentioned, but my understanding on this is limited (or ignorant af some might opine)
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like a mention of Kalakaua and the partial restoration of cultural practices beginning in 1874
Yes.
Exactly.
Another change in the ebb and flow of beliefs and preferences held by the monarchy throughout the 1800’s. Tackling who said what when throughout that century is well above my pay grade, but one thing is certain, it changed over time. Just as now.
The big picture encompassing the Hawaiian Monarchy, religion, culture, missionaries, businessmen, colonizers, territorial and state governments is a HUGE picture. So big it’s difficult to see everything all at once, or even chronologically one step at a time.
I swear you guys do little to no research and then base your all your arguments on false premises.
Most of what I said was based on historical fact, which I quoted. Please let me know if I made any errors, and I’ll correct them.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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Most of what I said was based on historical fact
Far from it. You base your conclusions on a few web pages from what I can tell.
But regardless what anything you post has to do with the current situation escapes me. Really, I have no idea what your point is about, how it applies to the current situation, unless it is just to confuse it seems to have no redeeming value. The people today are Hawaiians in 2019. Working out issues that face them in 2019. What do you have to contribute to that conversation? Anything?
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quote:
Originally posted by ironyak
Wow, I thought Kaimana would at least tackle the questions raised by HOTPE. Just calling everyone a naive bigot doesn't really lend much credibility to your views.
Seems like a mention of Kalakaua and the partial restoration of cultural practices beginning in 1874 should be mentioned, but my understanding on this is limited (or ignorant af some might opine)
Exactly. All the arguments are filled with red herrings. I'm done knocking down these ridiculous arguments and just calling them out for what they are from now on.
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Kaimana, I don't understand your argument. Do you dispute any of the facts presented by HotPE?
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how it applies to the current situation, unless it is just to confuse it seems to have no redeeming value. The people today are Hawaiians in 2019
So, 1893 applies to the current situation and contributes to the conversation.
1819 however, does not apply to the current situation and has no redeeming value.
For future reference, would you provide the cutoff date?
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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quote:
Originally posted by randomq
Kaimana, I don't understand your argument. Do you dispute any of the facts presented by HotPE?
They're irrelevant because we have history after the time period he mentioned where they were legal. But that time period is almost always overlooked to make their arguments.
