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How do you start a new thread titled "Mauna Kea and a third way" without giving any suggestion what that third way might be?
In the meantime, the protesters need to show respect for their fellow citizens and quit blocking the road.
Can a Chinook helicopter fly up that high? If so just bypass the protest with the choppers loaded up with equipment and drop it off bypassing the roadblock. Or if it cannot make it to the mountain top maybe load the equipment and load trucks carrying it and drop them off at the halfway point?
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How do you start a new thread titled "Mauna Kea and a third way" without giving any suggestion what that third way might be?
See original post for an example.
I think Kalena meant for us to put on our thinking hats. In that way perhaps one of us will have a eureka! moment and imagine a better way forward. Better than what has been presented so far by those who seemingly wear dunce caps.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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How about everyone living aloha together? The wounds of the Hawaiians run deep...it is painful, passionate and personal. Maybe some formal acknowledgement of the past wrong doings as a way to move forward. Hawaii can only move forward if we can make peace with the wrongdoings of the past.
Stacey
Living the life in Cali and Hawai‘i
Stacey
Living the life in Cali and Hawai‘i
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Didn't Bill Clinton formally acknowledge past wrongs? It does look like a proxy dispute. I say that because no one has made a point to make perfectly clear how the telescope will interfere with custom or a pantheistic religion which is no longer practiced. There is no third way. Build it, or don't. Kinda build it? Hey, take Mauna Loa? I do feel like the observatory community and UH Hilo are bending over backwards to acknowledge and show respect for the self-described protectors. But there is no third way, so they can sit and hold hands all they want. The State has no choice but to enforce the law and the protectors may feel increasingly entitled to break it, up to and including stopping any maintenance or use of the other telescopes.
I drove Saddle Road and the size of the crowd was impressive. I said to myself "They might be able to stop it".
I also said to myself: Kids are getting murdered with AK 47's and kids are being torn from their parents and thrown in cages and Americans on Hawaii Island (and elsewhere) ignore that and instead throw a massive star-studded protest over building the finest telescope on the planet? Think I'll go back to Mexico.
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Good thoughts, Kelena. One has to realize that the current situation will be a minute blip in human history and decades from now will almost certainly be forgotten, we'll have moved on. On the other hand, this minute blip is a raging inferno for all those involved. It's sometimes hard to think of the bigger picture.
In the future, we may not have a Kalena and Kelena posting on the same thread - things will be less confusing.
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If you look around you, it's just possible we are living in a transformative moment. In many parts of the world, you see the powerless, the dispossessed protesting against the powerful whether governments or other institutions. You see the unrepresented defying entrenched power and demanding a voice in systems that are designed to keep them quiet. Indigenous people, people of color, women, all are resisting the old ways of getting things done. A third way? If anyone can find it, we can here in Hawaii. It has to be built on deep listening, no doubt about that, and genuine respect for the Other who is way too often vilified in our discourse.
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People in many places are rising up against injustice, as they often do, and I support them. But rising up to stop a telescope? Sorry, I don’t see the injustice. Or a “third way”, but maybe Kalena can help me with this.
If the telescope gets cancelled because the Hawaii government can’t or won’t enforce the rule of law then I’m getting on the plane with Kelena, it’s no longer safe here.
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulW
... the Hawaii government can’t or won’t enforce the rule of law ...
There's the problem right there. In the opinion of a lot of people, the land was illegally stolen from the Kingdom. Search many other threads for that discussion.
Bottom line is that the State of Hawaii and the US government want to enforce their law using force.
Is it "might makes right" or "we are a nation of laws"? Can't have it both ways. Walking in the shoes of the other means acknowledging your own history as well as that of the other. So far, all I have seen from the "build it" team is a request that the other side move out of the way and quietly and peacefully disagree somewhere out of sight so they can continue their pattern over and over and over. We're not ready for the third way, yet.
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Is it "might makes right" or "we are a nation of laws"? Can't have it both ways.
If we’re a nation of laws with no enforcement, then we’re not a nation of laws. We’re a nation of suggestions.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
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"the land was illegally stolen from the Kingdom"
In that case, take the grievance to the courts. I wish them the best of luck. Oh wait, the Protestors don't care what the courts say, except if it's in their favor. You can't have it both ways. Still looking for the third way.
