Posts: 2,485
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
In our arguments about who got here first and who beat up on who we often refer to the first wave of colonizers who were allegedly displaced by the second wave. This seems relevant.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...ive_Answer
So, not much before 1000 AD with significant human impact by 1200 AD.
This due to improvements in C14 dating. Also you must shave off the age of the tree, possibly hundreds of years, from those bits of charcoal you are dating.
So much for when. I would still like to know more about who or where from.
None of this changes my understanding of human nature.
Posts: 1,513
Threads: 18
Joined: Oct 2014
I wonder if there is an amount of time after a group has migrated to, settled or conquered an area or this island chain for example, that the group of people are legally deemed "native" per the United Nations? Or does it only pertain to people who rose from the earth in that specific area?
I can't even engage in conversations about the "native" Hawaiians because it seems we are all immigrants. And the Hawaiian Kingdom was not solely of Polynesian citizenry, there were caucasians, Asians etc..
Posts: 105
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2017
Hawaiians arrived on the islands indirectly from Taiwan. Their ancestors left Taiwan about 3000 BC.Tests show that today's Hawaiians share DNA with the aborigines who still live on Taiwan. They arrived via the Philippines, Indonesia, the Solomon Islands and from there spread throughout Polynesia. They finally got to Hawaii around 1000 AD although some research shows the Menehune from the Marquesas might have arrived 100's of years before and were wiped out by the later arriving group of Polynesians from Tahiti.
Posts: 1,975
Threads: 47
Joined: Jul 2012
Facts don’t matter in Hawaii, so no matter which date you pick for arrival you are wrong.
Posts: 14,145
Threads: 424
Joined: Aug 2012
Hawaii hasn't been "settled" yet.
Posts: 2,485
Threads: 10
Joined: Feb 2008
" although some research shows the Menehune from the Marquesas might have arrived 100's of years before and were wiped out by the later arriving group of Polynesians from Tahiti"
This is what I was getting at. Such an idea is low hanging fruit when it comes to making points about human nature and it is tempting to jump to conclusions, but when I search for evidence I find that it is outdated. The latest hypothesis is that everyone got everywhere a lot later and spread out rapidly. At any rate you can't have the first wave coming from the Marquesas before the Marquesas were inhabited themselves.
I don't need the Tahitians to be boogiemen who beat up on the peacefull Marquesans, I just need everyone to keep it real and not buy into a bunch of bulls**t. I would have difficulty believing that the Marquesans were uniquely peacefull themselves, believing as I do that we are all pretty much the same and do pretty much what we can get away with.
It is also a hugely interesting question in its own right.
Posts: 11,300
Threads: 767
Joined: Sep 2012
MarkP,
Thanks for posting the pdf, I’m still reading through it as there’s a lot of background, and variation in timeframes between the studies. It’s doubtful we’ll ever have a definitive answer for events in Hawaii’s prehistory, but the research is certainly worthwhile so we have a general outline.
Even if we had an exact account and date for a Hawaiian-Marquesan & Hawaiian-Tahitian interaction, people would see what they want to see over the timeframe involved. It could have been a few hundred years. Look at Hawaii in the 1800’s & 1900’s. Was the Hawaiian Kingdom a peaceful, advanced political entity with electricity in Iolani Palace even before the White House in Washington? Or did it consist of numerous warlike tribes constantly attracting and fighting with each other?
Your choice.
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun." - Keanu Reeves
Posts: 1,179
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2012
first settlers were from the Marquesas Islands ca900AD, the 2nd invaders were from the Society Island/Tahiti/BoraBora ca1200AD, these invaders soon after enslaved tortured and killed off all the original 'Hawaiians'...
Manahune (with A's) in Tahitian means 'small worthless person' ... thats what the 2nd invaders called the original Hawaiians...
the first haole to write about this, ie Clerke, Vancouver, Cook, Bligh, Ledyard, Gore, Anderson, Rickman, Ellis, etc. all mistranslated the 'small' part with stature, instead of worth... thus the stupid fables and myths of tiny little elves or brownies happily making rock walls and fishponds for a single shimp of kaukau...
in reality Menehune were starved slaves...
PS... the same Marquesas people also discovered and settled Rapa Nui (Easter Island), so they alone found 2 of the 3 corners of Polynesia, solely by themselves... Incredible!
if you compare the carved stone idols of Rapa Nui, with the carved stone idols of the Marquesas (real) Hawaiians found on Necker and Nihoa Islands, they are very similar.... also these marquesas Hawaiains cut rocks and fit them together,... unlike stacking stones like the 2nd invaders form Tahiti did...
the Tahitian invaders NEVER carved HUMAN Idols out of rock, only wood... and rarely ever cut stones for walls
aloha
image of a 1000 yr old Menehune pohaku idol found on Nihoa and Necker Islands
https://tikiobscure.com/2019/07/15/kii-o...nolulu-hi/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kikiaola
******************************************************************
save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
******************************************************************
save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
Posts: 1,179
Threads: 7
Joined: Jul 2012
ps the Hawaii Island chain moves 2" per year to the N-NW... same rough rate as a finger nail grows.....
the oldest Hawaiian island still above water is Kure... its 34 Million yrs old... it is by far the largest Atoll in the World, and also the most northernly... Kure was once larger than the Big Island (Maui was too)...
Kure right now is at the 'Darwin Point' of the ocean.. this is the spot where coral no longer grows at the same rate as the islands sink, (cold water).. like all other atolls closer to equator..
Kure will soon sink under because of the cold water, like the many underwater sea mounts NW of it did before it, over the last 80 million yrs.......
fwiw Humans have been on Hawaii for ca. 1/60,000th the time these islands have existed...
Mauna Kea has ALWAYS been spelled with 2 words ALWAYS!!! go look at Kalakaua's 1888 Fables and Folklore of a Strange People book
https://archive.org/details/legendsmyths...a/page/n10
if you want to believe an elected corrupt King (1st NOT a Kamehameha) who soldout his island nation for greed!!
try read :
http://opiumring.com/the-opium-bribe
T Aki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tong_Kee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junius_Ka%CA%BBae
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_M._Gibson
or look at Cook and Vancouvers maps made via phonetic spelling Mowna Kaah, Mowna Roa, Aheedoo, APoona, Owhyhee, etc. Jan/Feb 1779, and 1794-96...
******************************************************************
save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
******************************************************************
save our indigenous and endemic Hawaiian Plants... learn about them, grow them, and plant them on your property, ....instead of all that invasive non-native garbage I see in most yards... aloha
quote:
Originally posted by MarkP
I would still like to know more about who or where from.
You might want to hunt down a copy of Tales from the Night Rainbow by Pali Jae Lee and Koko Willis.
This more often out of print than in print book sometimes comes back around. If it does it would be found at Basically Books. Otherwise maybe in the library? The introduction can be read for free, and the book in its entirety if you become a member at:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/111753965/Tal...lack-Print
To shed a light on this book's importance the first line reads:
Kaili'ohe's stories of the ancient people, an oral history of Hawaii before the Aliis invaded.
This is a family's oral history, with commentary, recorded on Molokai, an island that did not succumb to the Alii rule as did the Big Island. Spend time on Molokai and you will come to realize, those folks are not the same as the Hawaiians that have dominated Hawaii island.
There's a reason Molokai is called the Friendly Isle.
|
