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Glindakinehokole, please lecture us some more about sensitivity.
Then I can pull up some the many vile things you have written in the past under the various usernames you cower behind.
I get you’re jealous of real scientists but try to control yourself!
Defending the dumping of trash on the mountain by your friends shows you have lost all rationality in this situation. Not too late to head back into the light.
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Hokulii/Dakine/whatever, what twisted irony. You make accusations of insensitivity to someone who just lost their partner. Wow dude, I think it's time you found another forum for good.
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There isn't a lot to talk about if you can look at those pictures of junk and not agree they are a blight. BTW I think it is a common power play to state an obvious untruth and have it go unchallenged.
I am proud to be able to correctly identify the piles of junk left behind by the protesters as just junk and further evidence of the weakness of their arguments.
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All things considered, if your's is exemplary of the insensitiveness of the astronomical community there's little wonder as to why you all are having the problems you are here. And, sadly, why it is your stay in the islands will probably be shorter than it needs, or should, be.
You can swear all you want Tom, but it takes two to tangle and your need to play the bully rather than the understanding, compassionate, and inquisitive scientist (that is suppose to be central to your nature) probably has more to do with your problems than you will ever be willing to admit.
As such, I think all the answers are right there in the mirror, staring back at you whenever you look. That the entire issue would be resolved if only you were able to perceive your own shortcomings.
All I'm doing is commenting on the trash being left on Mauna Kea by the protesters. You obviously don't see it as an issue but I do especially as it seems a little hypocritical for the protesters to want to be called "protectors". The fact that you have to resort to personal attacks rather than defend your own opinion just confirms that the protesters' actions are indefensible.
And just why did you have to say this?
And, sadly, why it is your stay in the islands will probably be shorter than it needs, or should, be.
Why will I not be able to stay in the islands as long as I want? Is this a threat?
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The fact that you have to resort to personal attacks
At least they're being helpful by outing themselves!
Why will I not be able to stay in the islands as long as I want?
You must have missed the memo, "the" Hawaiians are shutting everything down and casting all non-Hawaiians off into the sea. I've also heard that we will all have to build our own canoes for the exodus -- have already started cutting some trees for mine.
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The saddest thing about this is I'm being told by someone from California that my time is probably limited here. So much for aloha.
quote:
Originally posted by TomK
The saddest thing about this is..
I think you missed my point Tom..I am sorry for the confusion. The "you" was really meant to read "You All", the Astronomy community. You, personally, are more than welcome, as long as you pay kalakoa his due all is kosher brah.
See, my point is, all this is heading to that ever present renewal of the overall lease, which will never get certified if the TMT pilikia isn't made pono.
It sounds less like you believe the culture is evolving, but more like it's being fabricated as we watch...
Zionism was a growing concern long before the world wars that gave it the urgency that forced the Israeli nation into existence. The Jewish people had reams of written material, dating back millenniums, to draw upon as a guide to who they are and in forming themselves into a government. Their's, a half a world away, is certainly different in many ways than the Hawaiian's quest for a sovereign national identity is here, but certain fundamental forces are the same.
The way I see it all cultures are evolving. What about culture is fixed? Language, a very fundamental part of any culture, is constantly in flux. With new words coming in to use all the time, and old ones fading away. Musical norms, morals, all are evolving. As such any attempt to measure what will be by what was must include an allowance for change. In this way the Hawaiian nation that may rise in the future can be expected to be far different than the one that was overthrown. In this way finite concepts like the difference between evolution and fabrication get blurred, don't you think?
And besides, one's actions are not a measurement of one's ethnicity. A Jew is none the less a Jew when measured by their actions, are they? So why would an Hawaiian's actions be a measurement of their ethnicity? Why would their behavior be a staff by which one would measure their right to sovereignty? That right is not altered or diminished by the way they practice their culture, is it?
quote:
Originally posted by MarkP
There isn't a lot to talk about if you can look at those pictures of junk and not agree they are a blight...
I see your point, and think, if the people involved had abandoned their stance on the mountain, it may be valid. But, I suspect, the folks that left their possessions there for the moment see it differently.
Maybe, to them, it is more a pile of possessions left, as you might leave a towel on the beach to mark where you intend to return after taking a stroll. Surely some fellow beach goers might look at your towel and be aghast that you would litter the beach with your things. Whereas you, enjoying your stroll, would think nothing of it.
I don't think mine is to say right or wrong. But more to watch and see how this all unfolds. I personally would, if possible/convenient haul my stuff with me as I come and go. But maybe there's is a perceived need to leave something as a stake, a claim? I don't know. Do you? Have you, or anyone, asked them?
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a pile of possessions left, as you might leave a towel on the beach to mark where you intend to return after taking a stroll
For several days. Or weeks.
Hey, if it's OK to store stuff up there, I've got a truckload of junk that doesn't fit in my garage. Equal protection under the law, right?
What about culture is fixed?
Violence and extortion against cultures which are different from your own.
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