Earthquake construction

[Kapohocat]

Although HiBor is less corrosive than ACQ, the bullentins dicuss the other factors, one of which is salt air. Might want to check these technical bullentins on the Simpson website with regards to corrosion:

http://www.strongtie.com/productuse/corr...urce=hpnav

As an example, on one house right at the ocean on Red Road, the crew used all stainless steel nails - both gun and loose. Added about $6000 (yes $6K) to the cost of the house. This 5500 sf house appraised recently at 1.2M. Added about +$1 per SF to building cost.

I recently was at a home at the bottom of Kahakai (HiShores/Hi Beaches?) and the nails on the 2nd floor decking were rusting out. This home was barely 4 years old.

-Cat


Edited by - kapohocat on 10/18/2006 08:00:38

[HADave]

Thanks Cat, for that link, it also reiterated the lack of concern for corossion when SBX/DOT and Zinc Borate treated lumber is used, of course this was an answer to a question about maintaning a moisture content of 19 % or less.

I recently went through a corrosion experience on my deck's joist hangers and band board flashing The CCA copper/corrosive effect is suppose to be less than that of ACQ but more than SBX/DOT. The deck was 12 years old and the hangers were only showing signs of galv. reaction/rust, never-the-less I replaced them and primed the mating surfaces.
Although Simpson makes no claim as to the effectiveness of sealers It somehow made sense to me especially where it was a deck and exposed to the elements. It also added an extra 24 hours to the project for application and drying time.

With respect to the salt air effect, Is there any evidense that this is as much of a concern the further away from the coast that you go? Also why wouldn't a primer/sealer work in this situation as well and I refer to the strong tie being coated. I realize Simpson can't make comment on this simply because the treatments haven't been around long enough to show evidence of one way or another...

Aloha HADave

[Kapohocat]

Boy Dave are you listening in here on our deck today??? Ha Ha!!!

We were just discussing that as we looked at the hangers and joists above our heads for the second floor... course we had the technical types that got into the effect of our acid rain on the same hardware....

The main consensus was buy the ZMax hangers if available, and coat them with the zinc spray. Sounds like a lot of work - but the guys here said - no we have the owners do it - and it keeps them busy! Or do what hotcatz said and stack them. That was actually the preferred choice.

So I guess it is one of those things - the bottom line was if the guys were building a house for themselves they would definately go the extra mile (Zinc coated hangers, stainless steel nails). Building for someone else they give the owner a "price choice"... with the "better" suggested.....

Everything is a trade-off I guess - hurricane versus earthquake, HiBor versus ACQ..... galv versus stainless. Pretty much if your house was built before 2004 - it probably is CCA....I am not sure when HPM went to HiBor... Pierson, Trojan, and Argus didnt until the first order in 2004.

So I thought maybe I would build a yurt - fold it up and put away when the hurricane comes and go stay at the Mauna Kea BH.... ooopps ... that was damaged in the earthquake!

Dont mean to make light...I have been overwhelmed as most everyone is... Ask twelve tutus how to make mac salad and each has her own recipe... similar ingredients... own little twist.

[HADave]

I found some eye opening information to share. It made me feel better about some things and more concerned about others.

It also now makes me more open minded about the great number of things to pay attention to.

All this time it seems lava inundation was the big worry when all along We should be worring about Pele's pet snake, Earthquake. One thing for sure those things that happen in the Islands seem to happen in a Really Big Way I can't remember who it was that said they "Loved Living on the Edge" but it is clear to me now, that pretty much sums it up ))

Anyway Here are links to historical events and the solutions for better construction....

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/1994/94_08_05.html

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/1997/97_04_18.html

Aloha HADave

"Well the ain't no time to wonder why, Woopee! were all gonna die.

Country Joe and the Fish


Quake history 101

Maybe Elvis was really refering to this....naah, prob not

http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/pressreleases

"Whole lotta shakin goin on"





Edited by - HADave on 10/19/2006 05:55:27

Edited by - HADave on 10/19/2006 06:02:55

[Kapohocat]

The good news is we dont live in LA, Cali with close to 10Mil people..... and there is an earthquake.

Big Island population estimated at 167K - total! Thats practically the size of my extended family! ha ha

Also see PunaMom's post in the "bldg Dept closed" thread.... her hubby is gettign firsthand knowledge of what fails occured..

Edited by - kapohocat on 10/19/2006 08:31:28

[Hotzcatz]

Do you really want lava AND earthquakes together? Pele has nothing to do with earthquakes, she is in charge of fire and lava. Kamapua'a once created earthquakes when he was fighting with Pele but he isn't the one usually in charge of Earthquakes. Lono is the one who does earthquakes.

Pele has no pet snakes, either. No snakes here, remember? Sheesh! You gotta keep this stuff straight or you could wake up Lono again!

Still gathering data on quakes. Everyone we've talked to who had house damage had a house built on a slab. Houses built on post and pier had damaged contents, but the house is structurally okay.

So far the worst one has been where the house was okay, but the ground is not. The house was built too close to the cliff edge in an area where there is about 300' feet of cliff down to the water. Narrow lot, there weren't many other places to build. There was a big landslide taking out a lot of the cliff edge between them and the water. There used to be a line of trees between their house and the cliffs edge. No more. Someone said he could just push his hand down as far as his wrist into the ground it was so loose. The landslide also undercut the house so it is perched on a ledge overhanging the water. The house has been condemned. The current owners had bought it just over a year ago and had it up for sale. They had a buyer, but no more. No insurance, either, from what I understand. I've heard they have another house on the mainland and this was just their "summer house" but it is still a huge amount of equity to lose.

[Carey]

There are a few photos I have seen were the post has moved on the pier
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~entomol/pdf_files/hsp-3.pdf
and if you scroll bask to the #2 photo in this series there is an old coffee shack on posts that had the hill slip away, and it followed. One of the most interesting for me was the image #341, where the slab foundation actually shifted (no cracks were noted). I have to say that most of the total public documentation on Sundays quake has been contents damage, esp. from heavy items stored up, toppling down, including a garage door that was up, and came flat down on the 2 cars in the garage. It would really pay off in the long run to make sure eveything stored up could not easily topple down, with things like shelf ledges, cabinet doors that latched & taller furniture stapped up. Shelving racks on wheels actually allow a bit of ground motion to roll under them, prior to the shelving unit beginning to move.
One immportant thing to note was te number of tall rock walls & more importantly rock retaining walls that failed. When some of the retaining walls failed, the house adjacent had the potential of being undermined (#203,258, 285, 289). These are post & Pier, but it really doesn't matter, if your supports are set upon material held by a retaining wall & that wall fails, your house could fail. Be very carefull when using retaining walls in this manner.
Aloha, Carey

[HADave]

Here is an interesting bulletin from Simpson StrongTie regarding the corrosion discussion....interesting

http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/bulletins/T...RIER05.pdf

I'll also include an address for ordering free or downloading free strongtie catalogs

http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/catalogs/C-2006/C-2006.pdf (largefile 15mb) complete catalog excellant info...

http://www.strongtie.com/catalog_order.asp?source=hpnav for ordering free hard copies and cd-roms

Aloha HADave



Edited by - HADave on 10/25/2006 03:27:35

[mikewj]

"There are a few photos I have seen were the post has moved on the pier
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~entomol/pdf_files/hsp-3.pdf";

When I clicked this URL it brought up a paper about Formosan Termites. Could you re post the URL for the earthquake damage pics? Mahalo.

[Kapohocat]

Did anyone notice the #4 on the gray side (on Simspon corrosion link) that said "Borate treated woods not approriate for outdoor use".....

-Cat