Kazumura Cave

[leilanidude]

With all of the cesspools above, I cannot imagine the stench and poisonous gas in areas down there. Maybe some of those bones are not from burials, but simply folks that died while in there? Afterthought - with the verocity in which ancient Hawaiians killed each other, maybe they aren't technically burial sites but dumping grounds for the murdered.

[Or1on]

When I was a teenager I had some friends that wanted to take me to a "cool spot" and show me something.  We were in the Ainaloa subdivision and I don't remember the exact road but it was one of the ones in the first half of the subdivision and off to the right. (south direction)  So I'm pretty sure this area is still there and not covered by the 2018 eruption.  

Anyway it was a large cave that seemed to just keep going but after 10 minutes of walking they showed me an area that had natural shelf formations and there were tons of bones, skeletons and skulls laid out in an orderly manner.  Definitely a burial site.  Gave me the creeps and I wanted out.  Especially when the liquored-up friends picked up some of the skulls and jaw bones and made them "talk" and tell jokes.  No thanks, see you guys later.

[Carey]

Most likely this project will end up on the drafting room floor, mainly because of the water requirements for a "cafe", not for an "EIS" as this does not seem to have a 343-5 a Trigger! (& for anyone to state an "EIS" would get a "FONSI" means they are not familiar with the contents of 2019 11-200-1 sub 9)

But I wish MM good luck on their dreams, as many have had dreams of the things they will do in Hawai`i when they move here, very few actually get all the way through them without very significant changes (& most likely past owners of the cave land mentioned here have had some big dreams that were swallowed up in the chasm!)

[kalakoa]

Nonsense! "All you have to do is" rent space for the cafe somewhere that has zoning (and water), then offer tourbus rides to the caves.

Space still available in Puna Kai!

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

liquored-up friends picked up some of the skulls and jaw bones and made them "talk" and tell jokes

Now that’s an example which demonstrates the desecration of an Hawaiian sacred site. Good decision leaving those friends behind Or1on.  

[MikeyMike11]

With all of the cesspools above, I cannot imagine the stench and poisonous gas in areas down there. Maybe some of those bones are not from burials, but simply folks that died while in there? Afterthought - with the verocity in which ancient Hawaiians killed each other, maybe they aren't technically burial sites but dumping grounds for the murdered.

Hawaiian legends talk about how they would take their "bad seeds" down into the caves, and let them loose with no torch. If they made it out alive, they were deemed worthy to be back in society, and if not, then nobody would miss them.

---

Most likely this project will end up on the drafting room floor, mainly because of the water requirements for a "cafe", not for an "EIS" as this does not seem to have a 343-5 a Trigger! (& for anyone to state an "EIS" would get a "FONSI" means they are not familiar with the contents of 2019 11-200-1 sub 9)

But I wish MM good luck on their dreams, as many have had dreams of the things they will do in Hawai`i when they move here, very few actually get all the way through them without very significant changes (& most likely past owners of the cave land mentioned here have had some big dreams that were swallowed up in the chasm!)

Not sure what you are referencing, but I am looking it up and reading. I definitely want to be thorough. But honestly, in no way does this business plan interfere with us wanting to own that opening. I can make it work regardless, and do not need to even work while I live there. I have always felt more fulfilled though interacting in the business world, and may get bored otherwise. 

Like someone else mentioned, I could just lease a space in that case, maybe a food truck, selling our veggies. No worries, thanks for the tip, mahalo!

[Durian Fiend]

With all of the cesspools above, I cannot imagine the stench and poisonous gas in areas down there. Maybe some of those bones are not from burials, but simply folks that died while in there? Afterthought - with the verocity in which ancient Hawaiians killed each other, maybe they aren't technically burial sites but dumping grounds for the murdered.

A friend who has travelled extensively in this underground system says that there are several spots identified in the Kazumura Cave Atlas that are stinky but the only one he's personally experienced is up in Fern Forest.

[MyManao]

maybe a food truck, selling our veggies....

I suspect you haven't truly appreciated the challenges the area presents. The rain, the soil.. or lack thereof.. but hey, no worries, you'll do fine. I hope you're not destine to be just another candidate for the 'everything's got to go moving sale' shtick like so many who have come before you were. Really man, it's a lot of work hauling all your stuff over here only to find it ain't worth it to ship it all back when you figure out you gotta go. Coming to Hawaii in itself is a big leap, coming here and sidling up to that much controversy.. wow. But yeah, buy the land, tuck the deed in a drawer and you're cool. Just take all the rest of it slow. You know come on over and get to know the lay of the land kine thing..

I am a business owner who focuses on eco-tourism. I understand the nature of a sacred space, as believe it or not, we have them also on the Mainland...

But then you say stuff like that..

I doubt you can even imagine how a Hawaiian would feel hearing that you think you know how they feel about their sacred places because you are a business owner who focuses on tourism. The only thing I can say is I hope that someday you will appreciate how funny that sounds.

Some of your posts remind me of the way True Geothermal came here from the mainland and brought all they knew about geology and drilling gleamed from working in the oil industry. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on one's perspective) they weren't all that keen to understanding the volcanic structure they came here to drill through. As such, with an extremely hard won permit to drill exploratory wells in hand, they drilled and drilled and drilled, right in the middle of one of the worlds most active volcanic structures they drilled, and came up empty. Dry wells. No steam, nothing.

Had they come, hat in hand, and laid their desires, their hoped for outcomes, before the people who actually knew a lot more than they did and solicited their help, and modified their plans accordingly, we would have a way larger geothermal industry here. Dude, Pahoa would have been a geothermal boon town! Drillers in big trucks pulling into town to sidle up to the nearest tap. But no, they knew better. Even though the end result of their endeavor says otherwise. They came up dry and the idea of using the Middle East Rift Zone as a geothermal resource was abandoned. True Geothermal and Campbell Estate's vision of being major players in the geothermal industry vaporized. All because of a little too much "I know better than you"

I think that assumption is an American trait. It sure is being played out graphically with the American response to Covid-19. The I know better than you stuff probably has been responsible for the lion's share of those who have been infected. But, back to your dreams, which, I know, are only small kine compared to the big boys like True Geothermal guys, but regardless I suspect they will be tempered by reality, as was True's, way more than you anticipate. But that's cool. We're all like that. The star we follow never shines its light on everything. Life is always filled with mystery. Ain't love grand?

[Fivefingers]

Aloha everyone!   This tread actually made me create a new account so I could chime in......

I read through most of this thread and I am surprised none of the comments talk about the guy on Maui who did what you are attempting.  I took his all day underground private tour many years ago.   I will say it was very impressive.  VERY IMPRESSIVE.  Dangerous as heck.  I remember climbing rickety ladders 20 feet up to little tiny tubes, barely big enough to squeeze through.  They opened up to other rooms and such. 

With that said, I believe he was pretty much shut down due to problems with traversing under people’s property.   I believe he only has self guided walks now that don’t go under people property as a result of lawsuits. 

His website is still up and it appears his business is still operating but without any real distance underground.  

It’s been a long time since I went on that tour and maybe things have changed, but I do know he had a rough road for a while.  You might want to give him a ring.

[eightfingers2.0]

I did that a long time ago. The guy that ran it called it The Wild Tour or something like that. I even bought the t-shirt.