Solar Power/How To

[Royall]

Hi David – Is that a direct connected propeller or a geared set up? That would have work great where we lived in Oregon, but not enough wind in HPP for it. I would like to at solar water one day but with the Takagi on demand tank less system I would have to add a storage tank and we don’t have the room for it yet. The cost is another factor. I was quoted 5K for the system but there are tax incentives to be had to offset that a little.

If any one has an on demand hot water system with a solar unit I would love to hear how you did it. I though about looking up some old do it yourself solar panel plans to make and use just for a “pre-heater” for the Takagi. I have to get my shop built first, built cabinets, and……. The list is just too long!

HADave – What have you come across as far as DIY solar plans?


Royall

What goes around comes around!

[HADave]

Royall, I'm still trying to find ways to reduce/conserve. As an example, and i've read about many ideas this past year. One biggy is to convert a chest freezer into a chest frig. It improves the efficiency of refrigerating the food down to about .01kwh per day. There are no modifications to the freezer, at all, it simply is powered through a thermostat, It only requires running a thermistor (wire) through the drain hole of the freezer. Pretty simple actually. Once the thermostat senses the dialed in temp it shuts the power to the freezer compressor off. It seems to operate for about 90 seconds every hour to maintain 35-40 degrees. Best of all unlike a refrigerator it is very quiet.

The more I can do to reduce need the smaller less complicated a pv system We will need. The energy guide I posted definately has me convinced on flourencent lighting. So far I think I have created a significant reduction but continue to strive for more. The other thing about a chest frig I like is every time you open the door you don't seem to get that sudden air exchange, as in cold air leaving through the bottom that you get from a vertical cabinet frig. Plus things in a basket tend to make for less open door time. simply remove the fresh vegatable basket for instance instead of picking out all the salad stuff and loading your arms...I usually drop at least two things because I tried to take more than I can balance

I do think however the links posted from David M's are some of the best I've read and I also think that the link I posted www.hawaiisolar.com is the best for package setups in the Islands. Simply, they won't be undersold. I've not decided whether to go grid-tie or off grid I loved to think I could get power plus a dividend check too, but baby steps and lots more conservation methods first. Our lot has very easy access to power along it's 1000 ft of road frontage, almost direct to the house from any location, min. connection fees. Hopefully we can get power comsumption to be less than half of where we are now, historically averaging 700kwh mth. I really don't want to stop using our many convienent electrical items & tools, but our move there is all about simplifying our lives so we'll see how things play out. We may only be able to only afford breathing by the time we get there and get built...)

Aloha HADave

[haoleboy]

If a homeowner were to spend $40,000 for a good grid-tied PV system, would they be able to recoup their costs in resale if they they had to sell? Any unbiased opinions?

If I just want to stimulate the economy I'll buy a new car.

Aloha
Richwhiteboy

"If I was educated, I'd be a damn fool.”-Bob Marley

[sansei]

This comment applies to strip florescent fixtures and not the screw-in compact bulbs. Be aware that they are not all the same. There is a ballast buried in the fixture and they can be magnetic or electronic. The magnetic ballasts are a lot cheaper but they less efficient, which is why things are shifting to electronic.

If you have florescent strip lighting don't think you are done. If they are over 10 years old, they probably have magnetic ballasts. One manufacturer claims a 40% efficiency improvement with electronic. All you have to do is touch it after it has been running for a while to realize a lot of power is going as heat.

[jdirgo]

Short answer, haoleboy, is no. The market of people willing to pay extra for a grid-tied PV system is not that large. However, a good Realtor could show the benefits of the grid-tied PV system, in terms of energy cost savings so that more people would realize the long-term value.

The problem is going to be finding comparables for the appraisal, as there are few grid-tied PV houses on the market.

John Dirgo, RA, ABR, e-PRO
Island Trust Properties, LLC
808-987-9243 cell
http://www.hawaiirealproperty.com

[haoleboy]

That's a shame. I would like to justify the investment, but my haole head guestimates that it would take 15-20 years for PV to pay for itself in energy bills. If you can't recover the investment on the back end, then it's REALLY hard to justify!
Thanks for the info!

Aloha
Richwhiteboy


"Nothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing."- Ralph Waldo Emerson

[Hotzcatz]

That's because $40,000 is an awfully expensive system! What are you running with that? Air conditioners and electric water heaters?

If you just take your electric bill into a solar place and say, "I need this much electricity each month" you aren't going to be able to afford to go solar. Other than the equipment, part of going solar is the attitude. Folks on solar use a lot less electricity.

We use about half or a third of what we used to when we were on the grid. Which means if you calculate payback by the amount of energy you've used while on solar and how much it would cost from the grid it takes even longer for the solar to payback - at least on paper. However if you calculate payback using amount on the bills you were paying while on the grid, then it pays for itself much quicker. Still, $40K is way too much. That would be a sixteen year payback time - although that is using today's electric rates and we aren't even mentioning "peak oil". That would be an entirely other topic.

You can start "going solar" without jumping into it for $40K. Switch over to a gas water heater, dryer and stove. Change all the lightbulbs in your house to compact flourescent bulbs. You don't have to change the fixtures at all. Put all your equipment with "instant on" and other ghost loads on a power strip which can be turned off - and turn them completely off when you aren't using them. When you go out of a room, turn the lights off. Don't just plug stuff into the wall without thinking about how much power it is going to use and if you need it. Yeah, those fountains are pretty, but do you really want to pay money to watch water run over rocks? If you do want to run one, just do it only while you are looking at it.

Read the labels of different electrical appliances. I have three fishtanks and they all use air pumps that pull 15 watts instead of the air pumps which use 200 watts. It is the little stuff like that which can all add up and cost you money EACH MONTH!

We will probably invest the money pretty soon in LED light bulbs. There are now white LED light bulbs which are strong enough to replace your basic 60 watt light bulb and they run on one tenth of the power. They also last a really long time (decades) and will fit any standard light bulb socket. If I could get some by Christmas, I think they'd make great presents but they aren't available on island yet.

After you have gotten your electrical usage down to a miniscule amount, then the solar system you would need to run it would be affordable. Although, if you are only paying a miniscule amount for your electric bill, then you have less reason to go solar.

Oh wellos!

[Hotzcatz]

Okay, a "real life" payback calculation:

We were paying $125 to $150 per month for our electric bills in year 2000 when we were on the grid. We moved to this house and put in $4,600 worth of solar equipment. We've been living here five years so we would have spent (using the lower electric bill number) $7,500 in electric bills at the old house by now. So our solar system paid for itself in just over three years.

Sometime next year we will probably get a couple more panels so there will be another investment to pay off because we started with a very small system. But the "pay as you go" and "build it as you can afford it" seems to work for us.

[haoleboy]

Dammit Cathy, now you're going to make me do some math and research! Let me drag out our bill, lop 50% off, and research the cost of a system with that capacity.

Thanks for not discussing peak oil.

Aloha
Richwhiteboy

"Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail."-
Kinky Friedman

[sansei]

Here is a link to LED light bulbs: http://www.gaiam.com/retail/product/11-0207_MSTR

The web site is at Gaiam/Real Goods and the site is a pretty good source of information and costing for anything to do with solar and off grid living. If you are familiar with Jade Mountain in Colorado, Gaiam merged with them a few years back.