High Carbon Hippies

[Punaperson]

I wrote in an earlier post about what happened when looking at property in Leilani in 1981. It looked great at first, but a breeze brought in a rotten egg smell so intense my partner threw up. The real estate agent called it ' Pele's farts ', and said it happens, but usually blows away fairly quickly. While UH had an experimental well drilled in the mid-70's, the geothermal plant did not get going until the 90's. Anyone who bought after that should have known what they where they were buying. No sympathy for not doing due diligence. It's like buying next to an airport, and then complaining about the noise.

[leilanidude]

@Punaperson - the original test plant had open venting! Everything has been a closed loop system for a very long time now. and people who claim to smell the plant are now simply smelling the natural occurrences from the volcano.

[AaronM]

This current expansion does not call for more land. The future however, is coming...

The buyout program is nowhere near finished so any data available now is preliminary at best. I'm operating based on anecdotal evidence I have collected during talks with old neighbors.

[MyManao]

No sympathy for not doing due diligence

Oh my, not the double d!

Yeah, that can be a bit much for some.. who would rather rely on their agent and the information disclosed during in the process.

I wonder how much 'due diligence’ one has to do to understand the geothermal sub-zone land classification, and all it implies for land in geothermally rich areas

From.. https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/se...a2/content

TITLE 13
DEPARTMENT OF LAND AND NATURAL RESOURCES
SUB-TITLE 7.  WATER AND LAND DEVELOPMENT

Chapter 184

Designation and Regulation of Geothermal Resource Subzones..

§13-184-1  Purpose.  The purpose of this chapter is to establish guidelines and procedures for the designation and regulation of geothermal resource subzones for the exploration, discovery, development, and production of geothermal resources for electrical energy production and distribution within conservation, agricultural, rural, and urban districts.  These guidelines and procedures are intended to assist in designating areas which have potential for geothermal resource development for electrical energy production and which have an acceptable balance of the relationships of geothermal development to uses allowed in the land use classifications, to present uses of surrounding lands, to potential benefits and impacts. 
[Eff. SEP 6 1984]  (Auth:  HRS §205-5.1) (Imp:  HRS §205-5.1)

And for those just coming to grips with geothermal.. at about the same time the state was codifying policies towards its development they published the Geothermal Resources of Hawaii Map. Which can be seen here.. 

https://evols.library.manoa.hawaii.edu/s...cd/content 

I personally think it’s long past time to revisited the undersea transmission cable idea. Regardless of source types it would benefit us, as power generators, to have access to the larger consumer markets on the other islands. As to geothermal I think the model that has been defined, and is being refined, by Ormat should be applied to other parts of the island, and state, where the resource is present (follow the link to map above - they're all over the place). It’s the greenest resource we have, period. There's no weird stuff to creating it’s parts, little to no trash out the back end, and it’s footprint is minimal for what it gives in return. I think we should push to power the entire state with it immediately.

That's not to say I think Puna, Kilauea, should be the only area involved. Far from it. I think Puna isn't anywhere as good as the back side of Hualalai. The politics, the impacts, the number of stake holders to reckon with are minimal. And the over land transmission, besides for our own use, is but a hop skip and a jump.. And, as an added bonus, the land is more stable.. ie the possibility of inundation by an eruption much lower.

[Punaperson]

To MyManao: I didn't mean understanding 'the geothermal sub-zone land classification' when I wrote due diligence. I meant checking out the neighborhood where you're planning to buy a house, and finding out there is a major power plant next door.

I agree about the idea of an undersea transmission cable idea being revisited. I know that crossing the Alenuihaha Channel is a major challenge to get reliable power from the Big Island to Oahu. Ulupalakua Ranch on Maui has been studied as a possible alternative to the Puna Geothermal Plant. The wells would have to be deeper, but the neighbors/residents are cattle, there is less need for heavy duty transmission lines, and an easier path for the undersea cables.

[MyManao]

I didn't mean understanding 'the geothermal sub-zone land classification' when I wrote due diligence..

The double d can dredge up all sorts of stuff. I was just using your mentioning of it to add that zoning issue to the conversation. In other words, Leilani is primed for a build out of geothermal without any resistance, now that Pele herself has said her piece. And the land is literally zoned for it.

Originally I was wholly against geothermal in Lower Puna because the area was already being used for other purposes that don't mix well with heavy industry. But now, as I said, Pele changed all that. But I also think developers could get a lot more bang for their buck elsewhere. The deciding card is the State's. At this point it would take no more than a little vision and we could be energy rich, clean and abundant far beyond our needs.. and our needs are growing exponentially right now. But if Uncle doesn't see that then we'll be left to watch how far Ormat can take it where they are.. how much of the local contracts with HELCO they can land. Every other technology.. wind and solar farms.. is a waste comparatively. Though, they sure are in vogue.

[leilanidude]

In other words, Leilani is primed for a build out of geothermal without any resistance...
-------------
Actually it isn't. It is too volatile to place the equipment there as the recent outbreak proved. Staying off on the fringes, where the heat is still plenty high, is better.

[MyManao]

Actually it isn't..

You will note I suggested it would be better elsewhere.. but still, what I mean by primed is the way is clear, zoning in place, Ormat in place, and the need is there. I can easily imagine a buyout lot becoming home to a well, and a plumbing system to turbines and then back to reinjection wells throughout the area.

As to the geology, I imagine it could be said that the recently emplaced dikes might actually provide a level of protection to the immediate area. The magma that freezes to stone in dikes is stronger, denser, and far less permeable than the surrounding country rock. So maybe a future intrusion might find it easier to erupt elsewhere..

But still, as I said, Lower Puna isn't ideal, it's just the most immediately available and ready to meet our islands needs in the short run. While they contemplate other areas Puna/Ormat could be up and running (and without all that stuff that eventually goes to the dump itself that's involved with solar and wind) now, in a few years. Done. Complete, clean, renewable.. energy independence.. and if priced fairly, way cheaper than the alternatives.

['elepaio]

@MyManao,
I appreciate your expertise and additions here and on related threads. Salamat

also, you had me @:
"(and without all that stuff that eventually goes to the dump itself that's involved with solar and wind)"
bahaha..

God Bless
'e

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

also, you had me @: 
"(and without all that stuff that eventually goes to the dump itself that's involved with solar and wind)"
bahaha.. 


And what happens to everything involved with internal combustion engines, the cars, the trucks, the oil tankers, the storage facilities, etc?  Not to mention burning billions or trillions of gallons of petroleum products, that contrary to magical thinking does not just disappear into the atmosphere. 

Then we have coal.  And radioactive uranium rods that nobody wants buried in their state once their useful life is over.

Not sure how it’s a laughing matter.